Is outcross breeding useful to variety of orpington breeds?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by lildinkem, Apr 26, 2009.

  1. lildinkem

    lildinkem Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 4, 2009
    Some breeds of chickens are in trouble with a lack of genetic diversity.
    I recently hatched a chick from one of my nicer Buff Orp pullets. The daddy is my Black Jersey Giant cockerel.
    At that time I hadn't found a quality Buff Orpington cockerel/Roo. When I first joined BYC, it was to fill this hole in my Buff Orp line up. Before I filled that spot, my little 8 month ole Black Jersey Giant was given the honor to protect the girls. I find my chickens are happier with a man in the coop. Even IF he is a young man.
    This outcross breeding has produced a jet black chick. I know that this chick will prolly not have enough butt fluff. However, the genetics are their to throw potentially Black Orp looking birds thru this outcross.
    One of BYC's finer breeders has an Orp project going, using outcross to produce a desired end result. Eventually IF taken back to more of my REAL BLACK ORPS, I will dilute and remove most all the genetic traits from the Giant line. Leaving one large Black Orp LOOKING line. This might be MY NEW PROJECT.
    For you ORP fans, what do you think of these type of breedings?
  2. MissPrissy

    MissPrissy Overrun With Chickens Premium Member

    May 7, 2007
    Forks, Virginia
    There is excellent breeding stock for all colors of orpingtons available if you take the time to educate yourself and search out the breeders.

    Crossing your buff with ajersey giant has done nothing to improve the orpington line or color. You made a cross, a mutt, a barnyard variety.

    I know you are new here and new to your orpingtons but you seriously need to slow down and do some homework on chickens, genetics and the orpington breed.

    If you want some lovely buff orpingtons buy an incubator and hatch some eggs from Jody (hinkjc - moderator) and Charlie. I have hatched a few sets of their buffs and have never failed to be more than pleased with large, exhibition type birds.
  3. lildinkem

    lildinkem Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 4, 2009
    Hi Missprissy
    Thank you for the leads.
    I have some serious Buff Orp lines in some of my incubators. A very nice lady and breeder (Heather Vermazen) from CA sold me 4 dozen of her lines. All were fertilized by her Buff Orp champ Roo that her daughter Sarah is showing and doing very well out west.
    My post is to see what other breeders, like yourself feel. I value yours and others thoughts on this subject.
    I am interested in Charlie and Jody's Buff's too.
    DO they have Black Orps?
    This breeding that produced this chick, will no longer permitted in my flock. I have my new Buff Orp cockerel. I have a pic of him on my BYC page.
    I like my mixes almost as much as my purebreds.
    They out produce and are as large as my purebred Orps. And they don't get sick with the constant respitory problems that plague many breeders. And I will prolly keep this ittle guy, IF for nothing else to have a huge meat bird that lays over 200 eggs per year.
  4. EweSheep

    EweSheep Flock Mistress

    Jan 12, 2007
    Land of Lincoln
    I agree with Miss Prissy here. There ARE really good exhibitor Orpingtons that are real TANKS!

    You would be setting yourself disappointment if you use the Orp-Giant cross to get to the Black orp you wanted to go for. Throwbacks will be pretty bad and you will get odd sorts of leg colors popping up and muted black colors. Stick with the Orp breed and color itself if you want to raise HUGE Black Orps and there are a few breeders out there that does just that.

    Some of us want a different color that are not found here in the UK that we would try to cross with other colorful breeds and focus on the type of Orp and color of the other breed (ie. Sussex). It will take several generation to perfect the color pattern and then work on the Orp type at the same time. It would take hundreds of birds to be selected for the best in EACH breeding year and takes alot of time to get there too. Orps are not quick matured birds and it would take two years to get to the top of the line specimen you are looking for. You would need to cull HEAVILY! I culled out ALL of my Orp bantam chicks this year because they were not of the type I am looking for and some odd color creeping thru (muddy black color) and decided to get rid of the rooster as well and find another one.

    So go find in what you have in mind and work on it. I would suggest you NOT to use the Black Orp-Giant cross for your Black Orp breedings.

    Good luck!
  5. Katy

    Katy Flock Mistress

    Quote:I totally agree with what MP said.
  6. Tuffoldhen

    Tuffoldhen Flock Mistress

    Jan 30, 2007
    Quote:Nicely put Robin [​IMG]
  7. lildinkem

    lildinkem Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 4, 2009
    Thank you EWESHEEP for the kind thoughts.
    I have plenty of Blacks. From mostly a few lines. And was curious of what people like yourself think of outcross breedings.
    So, you think we need more colors in our Orps here in the USA?
    Heck I am having a tuff enough time perfecting my Buff coloring, while still keeping a very typee bird.
    Yet alone bringing in a new color. I was just liking the thought of seeing what comes out of this breeding.
    I like not to have to raise a thousand chickens to have a couple worth keeping. This chick will join the Buff Orp/ Buff Brahma mix pen that I have for ONLY meat and egg production. And I promise you, I will NOT introduce it into any of my Black or Buff lines.
  8. lildinkem

    lildinkem Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 4, 2009
    You guys have been great. This is alot of fun.
    Being new to all this, I really feel like the core of the best BYCers have taken me under their wing to help me perfect my small backyard of chickens.
    I look forward to future postings and picking your minds on what is the best way to raise chikcens, for both the breeds and my own birds.
    thank you all,
    Is anyone here going to the Ohio Nationals this year?
    Bredeers going to Ohio Nationals?
    If so I am looking forward to see you and your birds.
  9. efwellywoman

    efwellywoman Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jul 17, 2012
    Wet Wales UK
    I appreciate that there should always be very specific reasons for going to all the trouble of outcross/backcross/selection. However I feel that the blanket condemnation of this procedure is somewhat did all of our wonderful colour forms come about in the first place?
    As an orp breeder for over thirty years now, I find there is a definite place for the occasional use of outcrossing. For example, here in the U.K. Partridge orps have been declining in size and vigour for a number of years as the gene pool has shrunk, so I'm now going through the outcross process with the aim of correcting the problem and restoring genetic breadth and vigour to the form. I quite agree that this should never be done as a random and ad hoc process - we are dealing with fellow living creatures here that must be treated with love and respect, but I do believe there is a definite place for the carefully planned, occasional use of out crossing.
  10. BlueBaby

    BlueBaby Overrun With Chickens

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