Just thought this was interesting....

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by ninjascrub69, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. ninjascrub69

    ninjascrub69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Most scientists think all domesticated fowl came from the straight comb Red Jungle Fowl - I say they are wrong and I think I can prove it. I brought back five baby chicks from Saipan in 1945. Three of these had no comb and some even to this day have no comb. After 30 years of breeding and studying them, I believe the pure ones never had a comb. So I am going to start breeding the no-comb to no-comb to see if I cannot get them back pure again. Now for the proof I referred to -Everyone knows you cannot cross a cow and a horse. No doubt they come from the same ancestors, but it is too far back, perhaps a billion years. A cow and buffalo will cross, so their ancestors branched apart just a few million years ago no doubt. Now the Saipans and the Red Jungle Fowl are extremely hard to cross; out of three setting of 30 eggs, I got one chicken, so I would say their ancerstors branched apart before the cow and buffalo did. The Guinea fowl are more kin to the Saipan than the Red Jungle Fowl. I have an 8-month Saipan stag running with five Guinea hens and I saw the stag mating with them so I set 10 eggs and hatched five chicks; all were fertile but some died in the shell. I think if the stag had been older all would have hatched. They look like a turkey and a voice like a peacock. No comb and center wattle like the Saipan and are larger than either parent. I believe there were two strains of chickens; the Red Jungle fowl that took to trees and the Saipan that took to the plains. Finsterbusch and others thought there must be such a wild breed of fowl they called Gallus Gigantus but that don't quite fit the Saipans so I'll just call them Saipan because that's the last place on earth that they run wild. They do get some bigger when fed commercial feeds. No one knows where the Polynesian natives picked these fowl up - probably Samoa or some island on the way. It would have to be a place without trees and low grass as they developed their long legs from running and the long neck from looking over the grass, and if they ever had a comb, it would have got hung in the grass and got caught. The ones without a comb would have got away to breed more. They being a plain fowl, they won't roost in trees. Some will sit lenghtwise on a 2x4 roost, will not roost on damp ground if there is a log or shelf in the pen they will get on it. They can hear much better than other fowl. They wil recognize my step before they can see me, and if a stranger approaches they will hide. I would say all our domesticated chickens have some Saipan blood - some more, some less. I think the straight comb fowl would have more Red Jungle blood and the peacomb more Saipan blood. All game chickens will cross easily with the Saipan, so they would all have to have Saipan blood. Only the pure Red Jungle Fowl won't cross, or they are extremely hard to cross. The Japs had let losse thousands of chickens on the islands - all kinds, some games, white leghorns, etc. You name it they had it. These crossed the wild chicken out. When I left Saipan in 1945, I doubt there were more than a dozen pure wild ones left and one more year would have been the end of them. So what I have, I would say are the only pure wild ones on earth. I do not have any Saipans for sale and if and when I do, will advertise in The Gamecock. I have only sold three pair of these fowl. I sold Clarence Boles a pair in 1948 or 1949. I had several letters from him and he did quite well with the crosses. I lost everything in a fire, records, books, etc. But I think it was the latter part of 1948 that I sent these to Clarence in California. Another man got a pair but crossed them with Malay. W.M. Watson of Florida got a pair and kept them pure. When he died I got these back.((((References removed by Staff. See Rule #2))) I plan on taking some to Copper State within a few years but before I die I will sell some as I don't want the breed to die out.

    (From ultimatfowl)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2010
  2. flgardengirl

    flgardengirl Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sunny side up :)
    Wow that is fascinating. I would love to see some pics of them and also of the crosses with the guineas! You have sure been breeding them a long time. I really respect that. You are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you so much for sharing with us.
     
  3. ChickieBooBoo

    ChickieBooBoo Cold Canadian Chick

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    That is soooo interesting. I will be watching this thread to see what kind of discussion this brings up!
     
  4. ChickieBooBoo

    ChickieBooBoo Cold Canadian Chick

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    Quote:ahh, yes, pics would be AMAZING!
     
  5. BarredBuff

    BarredBuff Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Another reason to add that chickens do not come from the red jungle fowl is the Aracauna. South American chicken that has no ties to Asia right? Same thing with ducks mallard and Muscovy? They generally look the same but the muscovy has comb like thing with clawed feet.
     
  6. ninjascrub69

    ninjascrub69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Im not the one that bred them, this is from an article on ultimate fowl.com. (sorry for the confusion)
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  7. aveca

    aveca Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Actually there is a ancient tie to a breed of chinese chicken to auracana..the chinese breed was proven to have same genetics and lay a sky blue egg.. It was thought that ancient travelers brought thier blue egg chickens with them...This breed it seems was a relative on some ancient asian breeds but maybe far removed from the one comb breed.
    We posted it way back in the thread whats wrong with thier feathers..I can probably find it again for you , I will go see if I can find the abstract..
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  8. aveca

    aveca Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Here is just a peice of the story , there are very detailed papers written about the genetic and DNA samples taken from bvith the chinese blue egg chicken and the auracauna (sp) It was very interresting.. It was beleived they also used a frigate bird, its a bird that if it saw land would fly in that direction and not return to the boats, so that was the direction they would go..otherwise the bird would circle the boat and return to it because its feathers would become waterlogged if it landed on water so , back to the boat if it saw no land...

    The spaniards wrote of thier travels and spoke of the blue egg laying chickens that the natives had..Its in thier history archives...the blue egg layers were already established befor the spaniards arrived by thier own words, and there were no chikens in south america prior to the arrival of the natives..

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1965514/


    http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab316/Maahes_2010/South American Poultry Breeds/OlmecHens.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  9. BarredBuff

    BarredBuff Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks aveca!!!
     

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