KoShamo or other Japanese hardfeather game birds and freaks of nature.

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by diornisextant, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. diornisextant

    diornisextant Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hi All .


    I was going to post in wanted section but I am to new to update my profile ??? so, I'll put this out as an inquiry about the breeds mentioned above.

    I know to some this will seem like an odd post but I have a definite in mind and have features i want to combine in one bird The Ko Shamo has many so... I'm in the Seattle area and am looking for a small hen of a hard feathered game bird. Is there any chance of finding any of the Japanese breeds in the US . All of the websites I have seen have been a couple of years old and the breeds seem to have disappeared. Are there any out there still ? what about breeds that were created with them or mixed lineage birds with the characteristics.
    I am looking to add thick leg upright stance, hard feather to the point of bare areas and stout features of body head and beak.

    Friendly outgoing nature is great and a display short of attack is fun as well. I love to watch my hens face off with each other or my roo (seramas) then turn and start foraging.

    If there are any birds combining hard feather and silkie(I know that's kind of contrary) or NN, Serama or combinations including any of these and frizzle I would love to see pics and/or availability.

    Other heritable traits such as split wing and extreme forward carriage of the wings(especially) shortening and thickening of the toes especially the rear toe(to the point of not touching the ground). Leg scales enlarged and extending beyond the normal placement would be fantastic.

    Long neck and tail in comparison to the body and leg length. Not really looking for long tail feathers so much as horizontal conformation of tail with compact feathering like in the OEGB . straight long central feathers are cool


    Small is key to me so Lets keep this in the diminutive range.

    Because I am not looking for show type I'm hoping I can see a wide range of postures and feathers

    I have a Serama Roo I will be using at least for the first gen. so I am mostly interested in hens but Roo pics are always fun to look at .
    I'm hoping there will be a lot of pics in this thread. I know you oddball officianados(sp?)are out there so lets see your freaks !

    If birds are available I would be interested locally if possible in hens of breeding age. I would love to know where you are and what weather conditions they survive, hardy is essential.

    I am focused on a pet ideal but love the game bird form color and attitude.

    I hope this will be a fun thread for most .
    [​IMG]
     
  2. diornisextant

    diornisextant Chillin' With My Peeps

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    guess not.

    I'm shocked. I thought back yarders would be far more into the idea of mixing breeds and seeing what kind of urban breeds could be created . Imagine a quiet roo that was legal in city boundaries.
    How do newbies and yung'ns ever get into the hobby if they don't start with a few neat chickens. I would think the animal breeding hobbyists and clubs out there would be pleased to see new people taking an interest and encourage them at every step.
    With the political climate these days we're all likely to lose our right to produce any animals at all. then it will be left to commercial producers. sad



    I chose serama initially due to size and variety but now i am going to mix other breeds into them that I enjoy. When I have ten posts I'll start documenting with photos.

    c'mon there's got to be a few out there who don't want to try to discuss it because it gets talked down. The NN Thread is full of mixed breeds focused on NN so what's up with a thread all about mixes and new breed plans ?

    come out and get creative
     
  3. GotGame

    GotGame Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I will venture a guess as to why u arent gettiny replies. U are talking mixing way too many genes from way too many breeds. U havent even given a clear cut goal, of.what the end results should be. I dont even want to think of the years it would take, and the thousands of chicks required to be hatched and raised and culled. Its not impossible what u are wanting to do, but u are all over tje board on traits u want, u would be.combining probably ten breeds at least. Not impossible but impractical.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011
  4. gallorojo

    gallorojo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Southfarthing
    Not to mention that it would be seen by many, myself included, as a tragedy to randomly cross up ko shamo to make some project breed. There are many many breeds that need preserving, and there is literally a breed for every niche. No more need made. If you have this much time and energy, and money, why not preserve a breed already in existence? What would be wrong with just keeping pure Ko's?
     
  5. bigb-71

    bigb-71 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 17, 2011
    Ceder ridge CA
    what would be worng about just raiseing seramas ? i just think it would be wrong to breed seramas in to it ! sorry just my opion . [​IMG]
     
  6. diornisextant

    diornisextant Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Don't apologize for having an opinion. What would conversation be without it .

    Re: mixing too many breeds If the breeds in mind all have complimentary traits and the traits are not found in others there is only one way to produce a bird with all of those traits and that is to mix the breeds. As long as the goal is clear and the selection is strict then the project can move forward.

    As to why not produce a breed that already exists -because I have an idea, a vision of a bird that is not in existence yet. I have not set forth the goal for all to see yet because I want to produce it. With a little vision you could imagine the bird on your own.

    As to randomly crossing up examples of some rare breed, why not, it doesn't reduce the number of breeders out there creating the breed it only takes one bird out of the system. I don't see where the problem is. Not every individual can survive to reproduce - that's what culling is for- dead or bred - which would you choose?

    As to why breed into Serama - uh it's the smallest breed available and the right choice if you are looking to reduce the size on the end product.

    I will be using 3 breeds so far that I can see that fully cover the needs of the design. Maybe later in the project one or two others but after the base model is already formed and for refinement .
    but
    Each day I research and find another breed with a greater combination of the traits I want. I guess I was looking for help in selecting the breeds from folks that might recognize traits in their own breeds or in breeds they were once interested in. Or maybe a freak out of their birds that they held onto for some reason that might fit the bill.
    As usual doubt, criticism and derision meets a new idea. Where would the world be if all creativity was stifled successfully. Purists will as purists do though I guess

    I personally don't see the value in trying to preserve a breed that has nearly disappeared already due to a lack of interest in keeping it . It's like trying to save a species that cannot adapt to it's environment fast enough to survive. Kind of pointless really.

    There are a few traits that will be hard to combine in one bird but that's the challenge in producing a unique breed , hardly all over the board. What really is the challenge in reproducing a breed that already exists, to buy new blood when your project drifts and needs to be re-focused? It will always happen eventually due to inbreeding depression and fashion change modifying the standard. Unless you breed for and test with function. The breeds I enjoy looking at are illegal to test function so you are back at fashion.

    The base model is small and compact and upright with strong stout leg 3 main toes and large scaling, tight but soft and fur like feathering, ONLY where feather covers skin, a compact comb and open relaxed forward carried split wing. I can't see how much clearer I could be. If you are familiar with the breeds you can see the breeds I am combining

    There IS one breed that nearly combines all of the traits ( but would still need mixing into another or two )but it is a very large bird and not worth dipping into because of it. there is another that is non existent in this country so far that I can tell . But I'll still keep looking.

    There is nothing WRONG with any of your suggestions.

    I'm just not interested in doing any of that .

    [​IMG]
     
  7. GotGame

    GotGame Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Unless or until u put what ur goal is, in detail, u are not likely to get much help of input, for anyone to give input on an unspecified goal would be pointless and a waste of time. As long as u are prepared to cul hundreds of birds to reach this goal, are aware it will cost thousands if u see it through to the end, and are aware u may or may not find anyone else interested in being involved in ur project, then go for it.
     
  8. gallorojo

    gallorojo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Ultimately it's your time, money, your birds, your project. You have every right to do as you see fit. If you ever finish it, post some pics.
     
  9. gallorojo

    gallorojo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Gotta agree with got game about the long long posts but lack of real details-make it hard to offer comments.....
     
  10. Pyncheon guy

    Pyncheon guy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I know a guy in Southern Michigan that raises "small" Ko Shamos.....they could help your project.....(?)
     

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