Large Fowl Porcelain Project

annabell254

Chirping
7 Years
May 21, 2012
471
12
93
south Ga
Ok, so I have recently fallen in love with a Isabel Bahama but truly I think it was a lavender/isabel partridge as it had lavender body with straw neck and shoulders.... gorgeous! But Brahmas are poor egg layers.... so I did some research on the genes and found a few things

Porcelain= a dilute patten= needing these three genes to be a true porcelain: spangling+lavender+Isabel (the Duccle trade marked the name and should be spangled with blue/straw and white markings)

Isabel= a dilute of brown = straw color (true only Isabel birds will only be straw colored)
lavender= a dilute of black = light blue color (true lavender birds will only be light blue colored)
Spangling= Mille Fleur = and is the same as the spangling in Speckled Sussex

I have seen some work being done with Brahmas and Orpington's but both are not the best egg layers and deff. not in the winter :)

Soooooo I am wanting to start a Porcelain Sussex project


any one know where I can get any lavender sussex?
yea I dont think they exist yet!

so I may just have to be content with a mutt project with the goal of a beautiful LF bird that forages well, lays plenty of eggs and throught the winter and is porceline in color....

my plan to cross my SS hens to lavender isabel partridge roo ... get my splits for spangeling/lavender and isabel and then breed them to WHO?
splits to splits = would be possible to get porceline from them... but very few I think
splits to lavender isabel partidge = 50% with the lavender isabel partidge color and only a few still split for spangleing
splits to spangling= 50% with spangleing and only a few still split for the lavender isabel partidge color

I guess to use sperate pens for my splits...would be the least head ach.... I dont know.....


maybe this is a bad idea!

but maybe fun to talk about
 

annabell254

Chirping
7 Years
May 21, 2012
471
12
93
south Ga
ok....so my 1st idea was a bad one! haha! but here is my new plan


ONLY GOAL to create a LF porcelain chicken that is a good layer of good sized eggs ..... ..... and am not looking to produce porcelain's to any breed standard.... well yet
.... right now I am looking at using Sultans as a stepping stone for this project... as I cannot find a porcelain LF chicken of any breed
So I am wanting to breed some porcelain Millie Fleur Duccle to something bigger than a Duccle but still small enough for a Duccle roo to breed to... and I was thinking the sultan hen might be a good candidate being that they have no other color patterns and are of a intermediate size.... if I can breed them then I could breed the larger of the split chicks together to get a larger porcelain bird.....and then take these (if large enough) and put the roos over a coronation Sussex. ... (still need to see how the coronation Sussex pattern will effect the Millie pattern) or lavender orpington, (or anything else that might be better than these) but I think Sussex is one of the best egg layers.... and then breed their splits to bring back the porcelain.... and then keep for egg laying, and size of egg.... and good color and spangling


comments?? suggestions??? advice???? support?????
 

orangesplash

Songster
Feb 26, 2018
239
132
112
Islamabad, Pakistan
I have porcelain brahma and white sultans, do you think i can cross them to get porcalein sultan?

would the female be the white sultan and male be the porcelain brahma?

I also am thinking to cross tolbunt polish with white sultan. in that case, would the male be the tolbunt polish and female be the white sultan?

this is the first time i shall be doing some experimenting, so need advise! :)

ok....so my 1st idea was a bad one! haha! but here is my new plan


ONLY GOAL to create a LF porcelain chicken that is a good layer of good sized eggs ..... ..... and am not looking to produce porcelain's to any breed standard.... well yet
.... right now I am looking at using Sultans as a stepping stone for this project... as I cannot find a porcelain LF chicken of any breed
So I am wanting to breed some porcelain Millie Fleur Duccle to something bigger than a Duccle but still small enough for a Duccle roo to breed to... and I was thinking the sultan hen might be a good candidate being that they have no other color patterns and are of a intermediate size.... if I can breed them then I could breed the larger of the split chicks together to get a larger porcelain bird.....and then take these (if large enough) and put the roos over a coronation Sussex. ... (still need to see how the coronation Sussex pattern will effect the Millie pattern) or lavender orpington, (or anything else that might be better than these) but I think Sussex is one of the best egg layers.... and then breed their splits to bring back the porcelain.... and then keep for egg laying, and size of egg.... and good color and spangling


comments?? suggestions??? advice???? support?????
 

EggSighted4Life

Crossing the Road
Apr 9, 2016
13,543
17,889
782
California's Redwood Coast
Ok, so I have recently fallen in love with a Isabel Bahama but truly I think it was a lavender/isabel partridge as it had lavender body with straw neck and shoulders.... gorgeous! But Brahmas are poor egg layers.... so I did some research on the genes and found a few things

Porcelain= a dilute patten= needing these three genes to be a true porcelain: spangling+lavender+Isabel (the Duccle trade marked the name and should be spangled with blue/straw and white markings)

Isabel= a dilute of brown = straw color (true only Isabel birds will only be straw colored)
lavender= a dilute of black = light blue color (true lavender birds will only be light blue colored)
Spangling= Mille Fleur = and is the same as the spangling in Speckled Sussex

I have seen some work being done with Brahmas and Orpington's but both are not the best egg layers and deff. not in the winter :)

Soooooo I am wanting to start a Porcelain Sussex project


any one know where I can get any lavender sussex?
yea I dont think they exist yet!

so I may just have to be content with a mutt project with the goal of a beautiful LF bird that forages well, lays plenty of eggs and throught the winter and is porceline in color....

my plan to cross my SS hens to lavender isabel partridge roo ... get my splits for spangeling/lavender and isabel and then breed them to WHO?
splits to splits = would be possible to get porceline from them... but very few I think
splits to lavender isabel partidge = 50% with the lavender isabel partidge color and only a few still split for spangleing
splits to spangling= 50% with spangleing and only a few still split for the lavender isabel partidge color

I guess to use sperate pens for my splits...would be the least head ach.... I dont know.....


maybe this is a bad idea!

but maybe fun to talk about
You hit me in my sweet spot! See.. I'm working on porcelain or Isabella laced Wyandotte! :wee

Yes, it exists in large fowl.. even if only considered a project color.. come to find out you can get milli fleur Wyandotte in the UK! I'm not sure that the specific pattern matter what you call the Isabella color or if that's simply a choice of the breeder and if they come up with something that breeds true MUST then agree on a name to present to the standards committee.. so I go back and forth on my project name for Isabella laced or porcelain laced.. but I wonder if there IS a real requirement for that specific "porcelain" pattern.. like to be spangled?!

I'd aim for Isabella Leghorn.. if eggs were my only goal and meat was not a consideration. Check my links to see what you come up..
Isabel patrijs

https://www.countrypure.net/IsabelCuckooOrpington.html

Isabella Leghorn Chicken

The Lavender Gene

http://www.chickenridgefarm.com/isabel-cuckoo-orpington.html#/

I haven't gotten it all figured out.. but I'm super excited to share some of my links and of course thoughts/plans and be able to hone the idea with someone else brain than my own.. I know it's a lot to take in at one time and my head is still swimming in details, but I hope glean lots of great information!
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/

Happy adventures! :ya
 

EggSighted4Life

Crossing the Road
Apr 9, 2016
13,543
17,889
782
California's Redwood Coast
i would love to learn more!!

should i cross a tolbunt polish with a white sultan?
Don't do it.. unless the outcome is not important or it will produce traits you desire.. White is a wild card for the most part, that can be hiding other patterns.. at least according to my understanding.. and ultimately might produce white birds or white birds with leakage.. So if that's YOUR goal or otherwise acceptable.. go for it as YOU like.. Turns out crested birds aren't my thing.. and I have some split mindedness about beards.. love/hate!

Check out this fun little starter tool that gives you basic outcomes. They've added in lot's of pattern names where as before you had to know what that pattern might have been called in another breed.. like black copper in Marans was listed as Red Brown.. in Ameraucana. So it doesn't account for pattern leakage and you may have to figure out what some of the symbols mean in the out come produced (db, *E, *Db, etc.. link also follows!) OMG.. THEY added Isabel Lavender Spangled to the options, it keeps getting better! :ya
color calculator

Gene Symbols
 

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