leghorn x speckled sussex hypothetical......

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by jbolt, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. jbolt

    jbolt Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hi, just trying to alleviate lockdown anxiety ...... If I were to put a Leghorn x speckled Sussex roo over a purebred speckled Sussex hen, would the offspring continue to exhibit dominant white?
     
  2. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Some will and some will not. Theoretically 50% will be carry dominant white and 50 will not carry dominant white. Even the ones that are dominant white could be white tailed reds or whites ( leaking black). It all depends on the number you hatch. You will get some variation in the color of offspring; black tailed reds, black tailed silvers, blacks leaking red and blacks leaking silver ( birchen and brown red looking).
    You may get a black but it will be a female.

    Tim
     
  3. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Chicken Obsessed

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    I don’t know the genetic make-up of a white leghorn. There are a whole lot of different ways to make white. I just don’t know what they used for yours. Then the phrase “exhibit dominant white” could be taken a few different ways. It’s very possible dominant white could be exhibited and the bird not be solid white. What does the Sussex/Leghorn cross rooster look like? Is he solid white or does he have other colors, especially red with a white tail?

    I’ll make some guesses. If your cross rooster is solid white, I’ll guess the leghorn parent was based on extended black and dominant white. The Sussex should be Wheaton and with no dominant white. So your white rooster should be split for Extended Black/Wheaton, plus split for dominant white. The rooster should also be split for mottled and possibly Columbia. Probably also split for mahogany but that’s probably not real important since the Sussex should be pure for Mahogany. Remember these are only guesses.

    If I’m right, and remember I’m only guessing, I’d expect you to get a variety of colors and patterns in the chicks. I’d expect yellow, black, and red chicks. Some might be chipmunk striped, some won’t.

    In the adults I’d expect some reds, some mottled and some not, some with black tails and some with white tails. The red should be a dark red, not a lighter gold. Some blacks will be mottled and some won’t be. Some whites will be solid white. I’m not sure what effect the mottling might have on them when it pairs up.

    I could easily be wrong, especially if your cross rooster is not solid white.
     
  4. jbolt

    jbolt Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The roo is solid white, though only a few hours old, he has one black spot, and his neck is more reddish than the rest of the yellow fluff. And its a hypothetical because he could be a she :) I really like the attitude of my Sussex hen, and she outproduces my other hens but her eggs are smallish. I thought a Leghorn cross might be less flighty, and lay larger tinted to brownish eggs. Then cross back to the Sussex for a rainbow flock next season. :)
     
  5. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    he is Solid white(with black spots) because he is still carry the ER Birchen e allele and also carry one copy of dominant white...

    for heterozygous(only one copy of the gene) dominant autosomal(none sexlinked) genes like ER(Birchen) and I(dominant white) you have 50% chance of all of the progeny having ER and/Or I(dominant white).. now some may be ER and black and some may be just like sussex but with dominant white(white tail and white fly feathers)
     
  6. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Chicken Obsessed

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    First, trust Tadkerson much more than me. He is a recognized expert. I’m more of a rookie that guesses. I’m still trying to figure out how you can get a black hen but not a black rooster out of that cross. The only sex linked gene I’m aware of that could be involved is gold/silver and I don’t see how that could make a difference, especially since your cross rooster would be split. I’m guessing something on the e locus that’s not extended black. Birchen maybe?

    I don’t trust down all that much to determine the final color and pattern. Down can give a lot of pretty strong clues but I’ve seen some strange things come out of yellow chicks once the pattern feathers and colors come in. The way you describe the down I would not be shocked if it is Birchen instead of Extended Black.

    I see Nicalandia posted while I was typing. Another person expert much more than me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
  7. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    Mendel's second law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendel...pendent_Assortment_.28The_.22Second_Law.22.29

    it means that if the first cross was Heterozygous for ER(autosomal Birchen e alle from white leghorn parent and second most dominat e allele next to E) 50 percent of its progeny would get it to, males or females that does not matter. now to the I(dominant white, which is also autosomal). the same rule applies to this. it just luck of the draw on this dominant autosomal genes
     
  8. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Chicken Obsessed

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    I think what threw me was when Tim said you could get a black female but not a black male, but that also clued me into Birchen. So did the down color pattern on the chick.

    A Birchen female is black except around the head and neck while the Birchen male has a lot of other color in addition to black other than just on the neck and head. When I think of Birchen I think of the adult plumage and I just don’t think of a Birchen female as “black”. I think of them as black with a silver, yellow, gold, or red head and neck, depending on what else is in the genetic mix.
     
  9. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    Birchen females can be easily melanized and look completely melanized
     
  10. jbolt

    jbolt Chillin' With My Peeps

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    What does 'melanized' mean? Wow and I just got good at horse color genes. This is even more complicated......lol any guesses on the dual purposeness of the F2 cross? I know they will be decent layers, just wondering if the 3ddoses of Sussex will make a decent broiler in a few months.....
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013

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