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Discussion in 'Turkeys' started by syble, Mar 23, 2011.
anyone working with porters lilac turkeys?
Quote:not me....but I do think they are pretty!
it dosent look like they are around. I'm almost thinking i'll resort to making my own hehe
Do you like Porters Lilacs better than Sand Hills? Genetically they are different. Porters is b+b+DD. Sandhills are b+b+RrSlsl.
Have not seen Sandhill's and only a photo of Porter's, so have very little to go on in comparison.
i haven't seen sand hills either but i will note this. Porters is a true breeding variety where as sand hills isnt. Sand hills is dealing with 2 pairs of recessive/dominant genes.... the single red, which if they get 2 dominant reds produces something burbon redish, though the slate gene is interesting... porters makes mention of it but also says that it is believed not to exist in the us anymore.
So basically for ease of keeping and breeding (not having to worry about multiple outcomes) I would probably stick with porters lilac unless someone comes forward with a sand hill photo that floors me hehe.
I remember when this subject came up at the genetics group. The pictures on feathersite are the same genetics that Sandhill talks about. As you can see it is not easy to get a correct color picture of these turkeys. http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/Turkeys/BRKLilac.html
The SPPA did a census in 1998 where is says this about Lilacs.
Lilacs are silvery blue with red flecking, wings are white and the tail has a wide band of red. This is an old variety that actually produces four color types. When breeding Lilac to Lilac, only 1/4 of the offspring will be Lilac. Another 1/4 will be fawn (tan colored), which will breed true. Another 1/4 will be red slate (slate with reddish tint and red tail), which will breed true. The last 1/4 will be a light bronze color. Just 13 hens and 11 toms were listed which makes up less than 1% of the Historical turkey population reported. The largest flock has 5 hens. More breeders are needed. Please contact the following:
I guess that is why there is two lilacs, maybe even three. One for everyone. I personally like one that I can breed 100% of the time but will not breed true. I don't want my customers putting me out of business. These go like hot cakes. These have the same genotype as Sand Hill. They do have great grandparents from Sand Hill but I do not breed Lilac to Lilac to get these. I do a cross that gives me 100% lilacs.
To be in the Standard of Pefection (SOP) a breed must breed true 50% of the time. If the Sandhill Lilacs do not breed true but 25% of the time, then they are not a true variety, per the SOP. Nothing against Sandhill, but it seems that the only true breeding Lilac would be Porter's.
Would the Tan breed true? If so, that would be a lovely new variety!
yeiks, sooo complicated! I think i like the porters best still, i like a more even blueish colour instead of the flecked ones. Originally i was going to go with blue slates, but was not fond of the multiple colored offspring possible, to find one like a lilac that has the great color and breeds true, sounds like a dream to me
To me the fawn (tan) turkeys look like buffs if they where side by side.
Going back in history of the SOP, the turkeys that Porter is saying are lilac, sounds like the homozygous pure slates that are written by Franklin Albertsen on Porters website about slates. I copied part of it below but you can read it on Porters site here. http://www.porterturkeys.com/blueslateselfblue.htm
From the time the Standard was written up through the 40's, turkeys
which approached "accepted" exhibition ideals tended to be heterozygous.
Breeders at that time simply sorted poults by down and kept a select group for development and sold the rest. As scientists studied the genetics of slate - - Ghigi and Taibel in Italy (1929 & 1933), Walther, Hauschildt, & Prufer in Germany (1933), Jaap (1933) Marsden & Martin (1939), Jaap and Milby (1943), etc. - - it was noted that the basic color pattern of a given turkey modified the expression of grey (slate) in the plumage.
Up to this era, most grey (slate) turkeys shown were on a bronze
base, which is essentially an arrangement of mostly brown and black pigments. In areas where black is absent, the replacing color may be varying shades of yellow, reddish-tan, and brown; or even silvery-white to white, depending on what other genes are affecting the color pattern. In general, the grey (slate) does not replace the yellowish-brown or silvery-white of the basic plumage color. Therefore, brownish ("dirty") tints usually occur when the basic color pattern is bronze. As a result, slates on such a basis are not as free from objectionable color tones.
Slate poults on a bronze base with a single dose ( 1 dose) of slate
have the brownish striped pattern of the Bronze clearly marked on a dark grey background.
At maturity, when intermated these dark greys or slates ( as the old
breeders called them) will segregate into 1 bronze : 2 dark slates ( like
themselves) : 1 lighter slate grey. In the past, breeders would sort them at hatch and could correctly classify without error over a 1000 at a time as to future adult colors.
Slate poults on a bronze base homozygous pure for slate ( 2 genes)
strongly resemble white poults with the creamy white down replaced by a pale grey. The head is always light tan. Rarely, faint tan stripes ( similar to the stripes of a bronze) will be observed. They are the last category (light slate grey) that segregated out in the above example. Often, certain regions of the wings and tail feathers are nearly white on mature birds. Either of these two types (slates on a bronze base) were called slates or greys by the old breeders and usually further split into lights and darks.