Line Breeding Black Rosecombs

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Msbear, Mar 12, 2009.

  1. Msbear

    Msbear Fancy Banties

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    May 8, 2008
    Sharpsburg, MD.
    I started with a trio from a reputable breeder. I got a nice cockerel out of them and swapped out my roo with him. My other hen dissapeared [​IMG] which left me with a mother-son pair. Im aware this type of breeding can improve my birds quickly as well as exaggerate less desirable features.

    Here' my gorgeous roo
    [​IMG]

    Now, here's the problem. I have sold three batches of these eggs and stuck 6 under my broody and two in my incubator.

    Of the two in the bator, one quit half way and one hatched. The one that quit was the first egg of the season and oblong so that didnt bother me. The other chick is healthy and strong.

    Batch #2 went to AL and all of 6 developed but only two hatched. One is healthy and the other had curled toes and died.

    Batch #3 we to a bycer -All 6 developed to full term but died in the shell... never absorbing the yolk

    Batch #4 6 eggs under my broody,2 quit, 4 hatched and were healthy. I stuck a mottled chick in there to have some companions and I didn't want the cochin mom to abandon the rest of her eggs as they are a few days from hatching... I went out this morning and ALL of my rosecomb peeps were dead in the nest and the mottled chick was fine with momma. I think maybe the mottled hopped down in the evening and momma could only cover one or the other. The nest is 12" up ...maybe the rosecomb peeps couldn't get down?

    Batch #5 went to a bycer -all have developed and are on day 22 with no movement.

    Im wondering now if there is something defective with these eggs for them to develop and not hatch .... but my broody hatched them?? I really don't think there was anything wrong with the peeps that she bailed from them... I think it was just a terrible tragedy. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2009
  2. katrinag

    katrinag Chillin' With My Peeps

    The best thing you can do is hatch more yourself.
    Shipped eggs take a beating in the mail. Expect about 30% to hatch from shipped eggs.
     
  3. Majestic Lane Poultry

    Majestic Lane Poultry Heart Strings Animal Rehoming

    Feb 9, 2009
    I am interested too.

    [​IMG] Msbear [​IMG]
     
  4. Msbear

    Msbear Fancy Banties

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    May 8, 2008
    Sharpsburg, MD.
    I've done some more reading and I believe it may be a "vigor" issue. It seems that when birds are bred like this over many years ... in some situations... 20+ that the birds compromise vigor in order to breed so true. A breeder will hatch all of his eggs and even if they only get 50%, the outcome is 100% beautiful birds. I think that what happened here in my coop was a terrible tragedy but I think that shipping these eggs and artificially incubating them further decreases any chances of hatching.

    My original pair might of bred more vigorous chicks, but this new roo bred with his mom have brought out a gene that severely hinders this chick vigor.

    I may be wrong but this makes the most sense. I have a hen from a new line added to the mix and I hope she will correct this in time. I will no longer sell eggs cause it is too much of a pain but I will replace the eggs I've already sold. So sorry to anyone who's been let down.

    Any more ideas on this would be greatly appreciated.
     
  5. Msbear

    Msbear Fancy Banties

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    May 8, 2008
    Sharpsburg, MD.
    I want to add that this is the same problem I've been facing with my columbian cochins.... I have no problems hatching them here, but shipping them has been giving me nightmares [​IMG] No one has been happy. I did send a dozen to a gal in GA as a replacement and, suprisingly, she has 5 developing. We are both thrilled.

    I think I need to face the fact that I wanted top quality birds and I went to expert breeders to obtain them. This is how they breed to get the best possible outcome. They don't sell eggs, they sell birds. #1 because they don't want to give someone else a chance at this years show stopper and #2 because the eggs don't transport well.

    I will try again this fall if henny will agree.
     
  6. kryptoniteqhs

    kryptoniteqhs Rosecomb Rich

    Nov 14, 2008
    Perris, CA
    [​IMG]

    Im so sorry about your chicks!!! Im still confused as to what may have happened to them?? Try to think positive thoughts...like the eggs from your new hen....we'll incubate those and see what happens. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  7. Msbear

    Msbear Fancy Banties

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    May 8, 2008
    Sharpsburg, MD.
    Hey Kaylee, the mottled chick was a day older than the RC chicks and I think it got down after I checked on them around 5. I think it jumped down to look for food .. it did earlier and I supervised [​IMG] anyways, it must've got down and couldn't get back up in the nest and momma must've got down to cover it leaving the others to freeze. It's so sad to think if the decision she had to of made in those cold temps [​IMG] I guess the mottled had a louder chirp.... [​IMG] I did learn my lesson about elevated nesting areas. When my next ones hatch, Im moving them onto the floor.

    I have a couple of those RH RC eggs developing now in my bator... Im going to slide them under my blk mottled broody tonight. Her eggs are on day 3.
     
  8. Ryu

    Ryu Chillin' With My Peeps

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    It is possible to inbreed to the point where vigor is compromised. On the other hand it is possible to outcross to the point were you are getting very few show quality birds.

    There is a sweet spot between 51.7% COI and 62.5%COI (COI is Coefficient of Inbreeding--it represents the likelihood of inheriting a homozygous pair of chromosomes from an ancestor). Above 62.5% there is a high chance that vigor will suffer.

    There are a few methods of keeping your birds linebred, but not so tightly that you compromise vigor. One method to create genetic distance is to keep multiple siblings for crossings.

    And sometimes new blood is the best course of action. The new hen could be a soution to get your Rosecombs back on track.

    You roo is beautiful. Best of luck.
     
  9. Msbear

    Msbear Fancy Banties

    4,591
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    May 8, 2008
    Sharpsburg, MD.
    Thank you so much. I appreciate your input and I kind of understand it. [​IMG] Im reading more and learning all the time. I believe my sweet spot will be keeping to the original line as much as possible by putting the new, outcrossed chicks back to the original birds... I guess trial and error til I get positive results is the only way. Thanks again.
     
  10. Black Feather

    Black Feather Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I think you'll do fine.

    Most of the shipped eggs would have had some strikes against them simply because they were shipped. The best hatch I've had out of shipped eggs was 40%.

    You only had two in your incubator, so that's a high number of eggs to get a good idea of the vigor of the chicks, and of course the ones that hatched under the hen had an unfortunate turn of events......so all in all I would not give up hope yet. Set a bunch in your incubator if you can and see how they turn out. It sounds like your fertility is very good so take heart in knowing that any inbreeding hasn't gotten to the point where fertility is effected.

    Your roo looks great BTW! [​IMG]

    Urban Coyote
     

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