Looking for OLD POST of KITCHEN SURGERY

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Chicken Boo, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. Chicken Boo

    Chicken Boo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jul 16, 2008
    Glenn Dale, MD
    I appears that I have an internally laying hen. I have been reading all the posts and I realize there is little hope for Natalie.

    When I first joined BYC, everyone (including me) was following a post about someone who rescued several chickens, one with a bloated abdomen. She and her husband performed kitchen table surgery on the poor thing and was successful. They included several pictures and descriptions of what they did. I wanted to see that again while I am still able to make decisions. Does anyone remember this or who it was or was it you? I have a feeling that I have to decide what to do soon.

    Thank you

    Here is Natalie in snow.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. AndreaS

    AndreaS Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sorry to hear about Natalie.

    The only surgery pictures I remember seeing are for crop surgery and bumblefoot surgery. Speckledhen did have a post about draining fluid from the abdomen of an internal layer, but I don't think that's what you're looking for.

    I'll post it below anyway.

    https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=362422

    Wishing the best for Natalie...
     
  3. alicefelldown

    alicefelldown Looking for a broody

    Aug 18, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2010
  4. Chicken Boo

    Chicken Boo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks, AndreaS. I did find that one. This one had a pretty horrific picture of a swollen red abdomen on this poor girl. The post ran for pages. As best I can figure, this post was late 2008.
     
  5. AndreaS

    AndreaS Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Crap. I wasn't a member back then.
    I've gotten in the habit of printing every really informative thread I find, since they sometimes disappear. I've heard of vets giving chickens hysterectomies, but that may be cost prohibitive.

    Hope someone else knows which thread you mean!
     
  6. Chicken Boo

    Chicken Boo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks AliceFellDown. I remember this post but it is not the one I think I remember. There were pictures of the surgery and of the poor thing getting sewed up.

    Is this jogging anyone's memory?

    Thanks.
     
  7. AndreaS

    AndreaS Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hi Chicken Boo,

    I'm sorry to see no one seems to remember the thread you are looking for. I've been hanging back, hoping for more responses. I'd be really interested to see the thread as well. It looks like the link the other poster replied with was for an episotomy for an eggbound hen. You believe Natalie is internally laying, not eggbound, right?

    The internal layer stories are so heart breaking. It really doesn't seem like there is much you can do except drain her abdomen and give Pen G shots for the egg yolk peritonitis. Unless a hysterectomy is an option.

    How long has this been going on?

    I'm so sorry for your poor girl [​IMG]

    Andrea
     
  8. Chicken Boo

    Chicken Boo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks, AndreaS. I remember that this thread went for several pages with some good pictures. This was when I first found BYC in late summer of 08. I was hoping a moderator/owner could help.

    We tried to drain her last night. I sent my DH to the vet to get a syringe and I told them/and him that we need a 20-22 gauge needle and came back with this tiny thing that I did not see until later. Apparently, he and the staff got distracted by a bunch of people asking about chickens. We drained ~ 200 ml of clear fluid and relieved some of the pressure but there is plenty more. Our vet isn't close. I am going to have to go to a more local vet and see if they will sell me the right needle.

    I have some Tetracycline powder that I am going to figure out how much to put in her water this morning. The problem is she is not drinking and is eating very little. She got yogurt, bread, oatmeal, banana, and cheese last night. She only ate a little bread and cheese. Oh, yea. She did eat a little yogurt off of my finger. I just gave her some of the flock raiser/growth mixture and she took a few pecks at that. Then I added Happy Treats Meal Worms. She ate a couple of those.

    What are Pen G shots?

    I noticed that she looked like she was gaining weight about a week ago and DH convinced me that I was seeing things. I gotta stop listening to him about things like this. Otherwise, she had been acting pretty normal. Then I noticed that she was spending time in the nesting box and there would be no egg later. That is when I got suspicious.

    I am pretty sure she is not going to make it. Natalie is only 2 and one of my first chicks. I am going to make her as comfortable as I can and if she recovers, great. But I am pretty sure this is not going to happen.
     
  9. AndreaS

    AndreaS Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Do you have a local feed store or tractor supply near you? They usually carry all sizes of needles. Less of a hassle than a vet trip.

    Penicillin G Procaine is an injectable version of penicillin. It is very strong antibiotic indicated for use in injuries, animal attacks, and for egg yolk peritonitis (my understanding is that with internal layers, the egg yolk gets reabsorbed and becomes toxic- correct me if I'm wrong on this. )

    With antibiotics, you want to make sure you are using the right one for what you are treating. Tetracycline is not indicated for use in this case, and I've heard that it has become less effective due to overuse as a broad spectrum antibiotic.

    The Pen G is for hitting appropriate situiations hard and quick. It is injected in the breast muscle. I have instructions for how to use it & also how to administer
    injections to chickens if you would like them.

    You find the Pen G in the refrigerator section of your local feed store. You should be able to get syringes and needles there as well.

    If I remember correctly, speckledhen gave one of her girls three days of Pen G after she drained her.

    Another nice thing about injectable antibiotics is that If Natalie is not drinking, you can still be sure she is getting medicine. I would mix honey in her water to try and get her to drink. Also, if you don't already have some, I would get poly-vi-sol baby vitamins from the vitamin section of wall mart or the drug store. You want the formula WITHOUT iron. Try giving her three drops along her beak line twice a day. The b vitamins will help her appetite. Or, if you have nutri-drench for poultry, that would work as well.

    My approach would be to keep trying to get her to eat and drink, supplement her with vitamins, get a larger needle and continue to try and drain her, and get her Pen G injections.

    If she refuses to eat, you can get baby bird formula from the pet store and hand feed her that.

    Please keep me updated, and let me know if you would like the info I have on Pen G and how to do injections!
     
  10. Chicken Boo

    Chicken Boo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jul 16, 2008
    Glenn Dale, MD
    I just got back from Bowen's in Annapolis. They had the penicillin that I need and larger gauge needles.

    We drained her again mid day (~ 90 ml more) and she seemed happy to just hang out in my lap while I slipped watered down yogurt into her beak. She actually slept a while. This is not conducive for getting the house cleaning I wanted to get done on my week off, but hey. She finally ate some yogurt soaked bread on her own but would only peck at the dried meal worms (normally a favorite treat). We drained her after I tried to feed her. After we drained her, she continued to leak so I put her back in her crate to soak the towel in there. About 20 min later she let out a noise and expelled some really stinky poo (according to DH; I have no sense of smell). I think she may be backed up from the pressure of the bloating because she also let out a big one last night after we put her back in the crate.

    There is evidence that she took some exploratory pecks at the food in her crate while I was away. I put honey in her water to encourage her to drink and to get some calories in her if she does. I am about to give her the penicillin and check her out before I start getting ready to go see DH's band play (and make sure he does not make himself any sicker. He gets dumb when he is sick, tired or hungry).

    I just read the instructions: 1 ml/100 lbs bw. She probably doesn't weigh 5 lbs at the moment. I will weigh her. I am going to have to look to see if I have a syringe that small. If not, just put a few drops in what I have.

    We did find a worm in her poo from last night (not quite 2" long, almost white, very thin). If she has one, she has many and so does the rest of the flock. They are getting wormed in their water first thing tomorrow morning.

    That's the current story. Thanks for asking, andreaS. I will continue to update.
     

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