Marans and APA Recognition

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Sparklee, Sep 20, 2009.

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  1. Sparklee

    Sparklee Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Someone told me that Marans recently received the reconition of the APA.

    True or not? I can't find anything recent on the interwebs.

    If so, which colors. When will the Breed Standards be posted somewhere? Etc.
     
  2. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

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    Not yet!

    We recently had a qualifying meet at the APA Nationals in Illinois. We had hoped to gain APA recognition for the black copper variety at that show. Unfortunately, the APA judges felt that the quality of the birds, especially the roosters, was not consistent enough for approval.

    The APA board decided to invite us to organize a second qualifying meet, rather than making us start the process over at the beginning. They expect us to gain recognition for the variety at this second show.

    Since the first qualifying meet was just a couple of weeks ago, we don't have a date nailed down for the next show, yet. We're hoping to do it in the spring.

    Remember that, even after we get the black copper variety recognized, it will be ONLY that variety. Each variety has to gain recognition separately -- you can't get them all recognized at the same time. So it takes a lot of work!

    ETA: Oh, P.S. -- you asked about standards -- you can find the proposed standards at the Marans Chicken Club USA web site, here: http://www.maransusa.org .

    I hope this helps!
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  3. OSUman

    OSUman GO BUCKS

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    whens the next meet gonna be?
     
  4. Sparklee

    Sparklee Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Interesting.

    Which lines were at the Illinois meet? Or does that even matter?

    Did you take birds?

    How many roosters have to be shown for there to be enough to figure out if there's enough consistency?

    Do you have pics of the birds that didn't come up to snuff?

    At least the BCMs don't have to start the process over at the beginning ... even though I have no idea what starting over or any of the qualifying entails.

    Yeah, so come spring, if all goes well, then the barred Marans won't be a breed, but the Black Coppers will? How odd ... at least to me, since barred Marans seem so prevalent and Black Coppers seem more rare.

    If I'm being inappropriate with my questions, please forgive me. I'm not well versed in the appropriate manners of chicken showing and breeding.
     
  5. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

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    Quote:We're not sure yet, but we are hoping to organize the second meet in the spring.
     
  6. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

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    Quote:It doesn't matter, and I don't know all the lines represented. There were more than 100 black coppers entered in the show, as well as some birds of other varieties. I also don't know how many black coppers actually showed up.

    Did you take birds?

    I didn't go to the show myself, but I entered a couple of birds that somebody else took up for me.

    How many roosters have to be shown for there to be enough to figure out if there's enough consistency?

    The basic process for recognition goes like this:

    1. You have to have birds of that variety entered in at least two APA shows every year, for at least two years. In each of those shows, there must be at least two birds of each class (two pullets, two cockerels, two hens, two roosters). So that's a total of four shows with at least 8 birds at each show.

    2. Then you have to obtain signatures from at least 5 breeders stating that they have each been breeding that specific variety for at least 5 years.

    3. Then you have to apply for a qualifying meet.

    4. At the qualifying meet, you have to show at least 50 birds. In those 50 birds, there has to be at least 4 or 5 (I forget which right now) breeders that have each brought at least one bird in each class (pullet, cockerel, hen, rooster). The rest of the 50 can be either sex or age, but at least 50 in that specific variety.

    5. Then the APA board meets and decides whether to grant recognition or not.

    I'm probably leaving out a step or two, but that's the basic idea. Also, there is an alternate process for bantam breeds that have already been approved by ABA, but our large fowl aren't eligible for that.

    Do you have pics of the birds that didn't come up to snuff?

    I don't have any pics of the birds myself, but I believe the main problems stated were birds with white feathers, birds with squirrel tails, and birds in poor condition. I may be forgetting something, but that's what comes to mind.

    You can find some pics of some of the birds on the Marans Chicken Club public yahoogroup ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/groups/Marans_Chicken_Club) -- and I think there's more show pics on the private yahoogroups for paid MCCUSA club members, but obviously you'll have to join the club to see those. [​IMG]

    At least the BCMs don't have to start the process over at the beginning ... even though I have no idea what starting over or any of the qualifying entails.

    Right. If the APA had chosen to actually reject us, then we would have to at least go through that two year process of showing again.

    Yeah, so come spring, if all goes well, then the barred Marans won't be a breed, but the Black Coppers will? How odd ... at least to me, since barred Marans seem so prevalent and Black Coppers seem more rare.

    Most people who have cuckoo Marans have clean legged birds, and the APA will only be accepting feather legged ones. There's a lot of interest in black coppers right now, and they are the most popular variety in France.

    If I'm being inappropriate with my questions, please forgive me. I'm not well versed in the appropriate manners of chicken showing and breeding.

    No problem. Asking is a good way to learn!​
     
  7. Birch Run Farm

    Birch Run Farm Biddy up!

    Sep 5, 2008
    VERMONT
    Most people who have cuckoo Marans have clean legged birds, and the APA will only be accepting feather legged ones.

    Yeah, I think that is a bummer, too bad. There are breeds that are rose comb or single comb, bearded or non bearded. Too bad clean legged marans have been left out.​
     
  8. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

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    Quote:Yeah, I think that is a bummer, too bad. There are breeds that are rose comb or single comb, bearded or non bearded. Too bad clean legged marans have been left out.

    I don't understand all the intricacies of APA classifications, but I think the feather-legged vs. clean-legged divide is a bigger deal than the others in the APA system.

    In any case, we're working on cuckoo acceptance. We've already had a couple of the necessary preliminary shows for cuckoos, and we should be doing the others some time this year. So we'll get there with them eventually!

    ETA: I looked up the APA classifications, and it looks like it's actually the **ABA** that specifically breaks down breeds into clean vs. feather-legged:

    http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/breed_classifications.htm

    I think that the APA is currently trying to minimize discrepancies with the ABA, so perhaps that's the reason for accepting only one leg style per breed? I dunno.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  9. blackdotte

    blackdotte Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Clean shanked v Feathered Shanks
    Just as Mc Donald's has a World wide trademark on the words "Big Mac" etc, the French Marans Club as a World wide trademark on the words "pure bred Marans fowl". The Marans is a French breed and in it's country of origin it is a feathered shanked breed.
    Maybe the people with clean legged 'Marans' should change tack and instead of squabbling with the feather shanked breeders & the APA support a change to the name of their clean legged birds to something like the "Rochelle". These dark egg laying birds originated from the area around the towns of Marans & La Rochelle.
    David
     
  10. Pathfinders

    Pathfinders Overrun With Chickens

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    I haven't brought this topic up, but have been waiting to see what others said about the Qualifier.

    Last week I spoke to a judge who was at the show (but who wasn't judging) and his comments about the birds shown were that the older males in particular had bad squirrel tail all through the lines. He felt that was an area that really needed to be worked on. He also said the younger males showed promise, and to keep working.

    Making the cut at a qualifier is VERY difficult, I know. I was involved in getting the Blue Cream Light Brown variety of Dutch Bantams approved (we did a double qualifier at the Crossroads show in '06.)

    A variety is hard enough, but an entire breed is even harder.

    Based on what my buddy the judge said, I would encourage all who are working towards getting the BC Marans accepted to hatch many, many chicks, and cull hard in order to get rid of the bad tails. And condition really should be excellent for a qualifier, they're pretty picky about that for those...

    Best of luck to you all with it. Been there, done that. It's hard work!
     
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