Marek's Vaccination?

[feather13]

@feather13

Honestly depending on the strain Mareks isn't that bad. I got it shortly after starting the flock (a chick from an NPIP certified breeder). The first year I did lose some birds, mostly adolescents I tried to integrate into the flock, but have not had a bird get sick in FIVE YEARS.

I am just very mindful of stress levels, if a bird is injured or sick I dose that bird with anti-herpes meds (which are very cheap) and I don't introduce chicks without a mother hen. My birds live completely normal lives, the Buff Orp is 7 or 8 years old and I have had 8 year old bantams. Keep in mind it is typically non-lethal in wild bird populations, and show breeders have told me they also breed for resistance (and they almost certainly have it too, just never see signs).

Though the Marek's vaccine is enabling much more lethal strains to spread. Sadly the vaccine is only making it much much worse whereas if people bred for RESISTANCE chicken populations would become resistant to it and it would rarely become a problem. Course chickens are "disposable" and breeding for resistance affects the profit margins and inconveniences people so virtually no one bothers.

@Sonya9 : Thank you so much for your post! It's very comforting. Watching birds die from Marek's is so horrifying, so I'm glad you've had luck. We currently have three Marek's-exposed, healthy 7 and 8 year old hens that never got sick. It does seem that the survivors of the first wave of virus can go on to live a good life. The only chickens 1+ years old that succumbed to Marek's in our flock were bantams and it was probably due to the stress of living with full-sized chickens (my mistake--I will never keep bantams with full-sized chickens again unless I have a large number of them).

Do you dose your birds with Acyclovir and do you get it from the vet? After reading your message I did a search and it seems that some have found Acyclovir, St. John's Wort and Lysine helpful in treating Marek's. We've never had a bird survive after showing signs of Marek's.

I had read about people having good luck with the Marek's vaccine in chicks introduced into an infected flock, but didn't know that it was creating more problems than it was solving

 

[Sonya9]

Breeding for resistance is the only breeding plan possible if the disease is in a flock. It means producing chicks, at least at first, who will die of the disease's effects at young ages, nothing that looks attractive to me. I'd rather avoid the disease if at all possible in the first place, and have birds who can survive in my existing flock if it ever appears here.
One choice, after the fact, and another choice, to attempt to avoid it in the first place.
Mary

In the last 5 years I have added chicks most every spring and not ONE of them has gotten sick from Mareks or died form it. The chicks were various breeds purchased at the local store, I rarely breed my own. To my knowledge none of them were vaccinated. They are perfectly healthy birds and will live out their lives without ever showing a sign or symptom.

We also have a State AG vet in the next county that will necropsy any chicken at no cost and they run a huge battery of tests (they do that to track diseases since poultry farming is big in Georgia). He says virtually all of the flocks around here have it but most don't know it.

It is a herpes virus and apparently some or even most strains can remain dormant and harmless forever. Same thing with herpes in humans, some sources think 90% of the people that have contracted genital herpes also never have a noticeable symptom and live out their lives without realizing they ever caught it.

 

[Sonya9]

Do you dose your birds with Acyclovir and do you get it from the vet? After reading your message I did a search and it seems that some have found Acyclovir, St. John's Wort and Lysine helpful in treating Marek's. We've never had a bird survive after showing signs of Marek's.

I got a prescription from my vet and filled it at a regular pharmacy. To my knowledge anti-herpes meds are not used in chickens and most vets likely have never heard of it much less carry it. Someone just posted yesterday about using acyclovir to cure herpes in Turkeys (a different but very fatal form).

I use Valtrex which is similar to acyclovir but not sure if it is exactly the same. Both drugs are cheap ($10-$20 buys a huge supply) and worth having on hand if people know they have mareks in the flock.

 

[feather13]

In the last 5 years I have added chicks most every spring and not ONE of them has gotten sick from Mareks or died form it.

It is a herpes virus and apparently some or even most strains can remain dormant and harmless forever. Same thing with herpes in humans, some sources think 90% of the people that have contracted genital herpes also never have a noticeable symptom and live out their lives without realizing they ever caught it.

That's important to remember and I'm glad you've had healthy chicks for the past five years! That's comforting news. I tend to think of Marek's as Avian AIDS, but it is a virus and I hope that if I keep stress low for them, it won't erupt again. Although scary to think that 90% of us may have contracted asymptomatic genital herpes!

 

[feather13]

I got a prescription from my vet and filled it at a regular pharmacy. To my knowledge anti-herpes meds are not used in chickens and most vets likely have never heard of it much less carry it. Someone just posted yesterday about using acyclovir to cure herpes in Turkeys (a different but very fatal form).

I use Valtrex which is similar to acyclovir but not sure if it is exactly the same. Both drugs are cheap ($10-$20 buys a huge supply) and worth having on hand if people know they have mareks in the flock.

Good to know! I think I'll ask my vet to fill a prescription since she knows we have had Marek's infected chickens and has had to euthanize one.

Just found this thread about using Valtrex in a Marek's-symptomatic chicken that might be useful. Hopefully the OP can post an update.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/has-anyone-had-any-luck-with-valtrex-for-mareks.1197445/

Thanks again, @Sonya9, for your posts and taking the time to talk about your experiences with this awful virus.

 

[Sonya9]

Good to know! I think I'll ask my vet to fill a prescription since she knows we have had Marek's infected chickens and has had to euthanize one.

Just found this thread about using Valtrex in a Marek's-symptomatic chicken that might be useful. Hopefully the OP can post an update.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/has-anyone-had-any-luck-with-valtrex-for-mareks.1197445/

Thanks again, @Sonya9, for your posts and taking the time to talk about your experiences with this awful virus.

Thanks for the link, I had not read that post. Sounds like Valtrex worked well on that hen. I did not know it was bad on kidneys (apparently acyclovir is too) which is something I will keep in mind.

Obviously giving "chicken sized doses" is a challenge since there is no info out there on how much to use. I just shaved off 1/8th or so of a pill and gave them that. Hopefully kidney damage is only a problem on long term therapy. @SammyBrowell

 

[EggSighted4Life]

But we are 99.9% sure we got Marek's-infected chicks from a local hatchery because we saw many reviews on their Yelp page complaining that they had sold people chicks that died of Marek's (unfortunately, we read the reviews afterwards). Apparently Marek's is quite common in southern California where we live.

Hatcheries.. hatch eggs.. Marek's is not vertically transmitted and does NOT pass to the embryo in a hatching egg.. Exposure would have had to take place after hatch. Symptoms do not appear in under 3 weeks..
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/neoplasms/marek-disease-in-poultry

According to the state poultry vet at UC Davis here in California.. Marek's is ubiquitous in poultry environments! That means.. already everywhere folks! Even those of us who thought we might somehow be the lucky ones.
https://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/243637.pdf

Yep, I got my first necropsy confirming Marek's in a 7 week old chick bought from Greenfire Farms, I'm tight about my bio-security never bringing birds from other flocks, buy only NPIP chicks, etc.. Got bank invested my stock.

Guess what.. Marek's is considered so irrelevant it isn't even part of the NPIP testing OR considered report-able top protect our national food supply chain!

@Sonya9 has basically hit the head on the nail for me.. Vaccinated birds NOT welcome here to hide the disease and allow it to proliferate!

Also, no bird will die slowly from it here because I'm not in denial and trying to give vitamins to correct the condition.. I have and will continue to dispatch immediately ANYONE showing symptoms.. of genetic weakness. I provide good nutrition, plenty of space, good shelter.. and breed for resistance.. I don't sweat the petty of "keeping stress down" There are so many things we are not in control of.. weather, hawks, etc. I do my part by not "spoiling" them with excess low nutrient treats.

I figured I was just kidding myself about not having any Marek's exposure.. being in the great PNW. Ignorance was bliss.. knowledge is power!

Should we not let any birds go from our places JUST because we know the truth.. or should we start sharing birds that have shown resistance because we know the WHOLE truth?! A home necropsy, while a good practice to see basic stuff like organs, will not even come close to a lab performed one where they look at multiple tissue samples under the microscope, run blood panels, etc.

It's interesting that some folks consider letting birds go if you have knowledge of Marek's as irresponsible.. I contend the opposite that spreading vaccinated birds around who *may* just be hiding it and have no true resistance are POSSIBLY spreading more deadly strains instead of letting it kill itself out. Yet, they also suggest vaccinating my future birds.
https://ucdavis.pure.elsevier.com/e...nes-current-status-and-strategies-for-improve

I do NOT know when MDv may have arrived here. Many, many birds have left my pasture.. and no losses were ever reported. One buyer, did report 2 years later (and a year ago now) Silkies she got from me (so 3 years ago) were the only ones left standing (literally) when it did ravage her place.

For some folks, who don't breed their birds and have had MDv trouble, then vaccinated chicks may make 100% sense!

With regards to the OP question.. mixing vaccinated birds and non vaccinated shouldn't specifically cause problems for either, as explained by other posters already.

This link says 7-10 days for vaccine efficacy...
https://aaap.memberclicks.net/avian-disease-manual-past-edition-

The 3 week time frame is likely, a comfort zone.. but would be interested in seeing more documentation!

Sorry to those who have been hurt by losing bird to Marek's.

It isn't the great monster it's been fear mongered into.. who benefits from perpetuating the vaccine?? Pharmaceutical companies.. Comes in 1000 dose vials and must be discarded after a couple hours.. That means it MUST also be stored properly and administered properly.. lots of human flaw possibilities. And so called "breeders" are some of the worst.. one told me she waits until a couple weeks of hatches and then vaccinates. Or I've heard 48 hours, and all over the place.. Buyer beware is all I'm saying here.

Best wishes to all for birds that thrive!

ETA: symptoms of Marek's in older birds would be slow wasting.. tumors that cause paralysis are most likely in the early days.

 

[Sonya9]

Hatcheries.. hatch eggs.. Marek's is not vertically transmitted and does NOT pass to the embryo in a hatching egg.. Exposure would have had to take place after hatch. Symptoms do not appear in under 3 weeks..

Hatcheries also keep adult birds and they have staff that goes between the adults and the chicks. The staff could also pick it up from their own flocks outside of the facility and bring it in. Once it was inside the facility it would likely go everywhere.

And yes I think Marek's is all over too but there are various strains, if a bunch of hatchery chicks started coming down with Mareks in a variety of new homes I would suspect they had a specific very virulent strain too.