Marek's vaccine and broody raised chicks

[Greg in Carpinteria]

Hi All,

Is vaccine effective on broody raised chicks?

Several years ago I lost a number of birds to Marek's and have subsequently vaccinated all my chicks right out of the incubator, there have been no Marek's symptoms in any of my birds since. I've got my first batch of chicks being raised by a broody hen now and I didn't vaccinate as I figured they were already exposed to whatever virus might be present in the flock.


I am really getting a kick out of watching mama and her chicks! I can see my incubator gathering dust in the future...

Thanks,

Greg

 

[Ridgerunner]

The vaccine is not chicken Marek’s, it’s turkey Marek’s. It will not live in a chicken’s body and will not be given to other chickens. So those broody hatched and raised chicks will not get any protection from it.

That turkey Marek’s vaccine does not prevent them from catching Marek’s and being a carrier. It prevents the lesions from growing that cause the damage. Even if you have Marek’s in your flock, you should not see any symptoms with properly vaccinated chicks.

Usually once you have Marek’s in your flock, you always have Marek’s in your flock. You are dealing with living thing so I can’t give any guarantees, but those chicks are at a high risk of developing Marek’s. As you probably know, not all chickens that have Marek’s develop symptoms. Time will tell.

There may be a way for you to still have a broody raise chicks, assuming you have one go broody, and still manage Marek’s in your flock. Let the broody set on fake eggs while you incubate the real eggs. Vaccinate the chicks and then slip them under the broody late at night after it is really dark. Many of us have done things like this and it practically always works as long as the chicks are very young. The older the chicks the less likely it is to work.

A potential problem with this is that I don’t know how long it takes for that Marek’s vaccine to be effective. It may take longer than you have for the broody to accept them. There may still be a way. Some vaccines are given to chicks while they are still in the shell and unhatched. They just poke a hole in the shell with a needle and inject the serum. It would take some research on your part to learn this technique and find out the required timing. Maybe start with where you get your vaccine and work back until you get to the manufacturer to answer these questions.

To me, there is something special about a broody interacting with her chicks. It’s worth a little effort to make that happen.

Good luck!

 

[GuppyTJ]

Usually once you have Marek’s in your flock, you always have Marek’s in your flock....

Ridgerunner,

Have you ever had a chicken that came down with an active Marek's infection? I'm just interested in what you've experienced (or hopefully not) with Marek's. I am a first timer with chickens, my first flock of 15 chickens (7 pullets, 8 cockerals ages 14 to 16 weeks) and had my first case this past week. I've read and read about Marek's and so am probably nearly an expert at this point from all this research. None of my flock was vaccinated so I'm trying to prepare myself for the worst. After I figured out it was Marek's, I cleaned out the coop (burned the litter) and turned over the soil trying to bury the dander the best I could. Probably, however, the damage was already done as the sick chick was with the others for a better part of 2 days before I finally correctly diagnosed it as Marek's.

I'm trying to keep the stress low and the health up on the remaining 15 currently asymptomatic chicks. But I realize in general, there's not much I can do but hope for good luck. It's been a week since the first symptoms in the Marek's infected chick and so I'm waiting and watching closely. Most of the literature says the incubation period for an active breakout is somewhere between 1 week and 20 days. Then... it can still rear it's ugly, deadly head anytime for the rest of their lives.

Sheesh. Wish I knew why this one chick had this active Marek's outbreak. That way, I could prevent it or at least not bring it on, in the future. If my chicks have a future... ugh.

Anyway... have you ever had Marek's and how did it run for you? If not, how did you avoid it? I recall reading elsewhere that you only get your chicks from a reputable hatchery. I assume you have them vaccinated by the hatchery at birth, within 24 hours of being born?

Guppy

 

[GuppyTJ]

Most of the scholarly literature on Marek's indicates that the vaccine should be given to the chicks within 24 hours of birth and certainly no longer than 48 hours. Then, the vaccinated chicks can not be exposed to Marek's for at least 7 days as this is how long it takes for the vaccine to become effective. This is why vaccinating chickens after they've been exposed does nothing. People do it/try it all the time but it sounds like scientifically, it's a waste of time and money.

And as Ridgerunner explains, the vaccine does not prevent the chicks from having the Marek's virus, it just inhibits it from becoming active and creating tumors that kill the chicken. It is also only 80-95% effective when administered correctly, like most vaccines, it's not a 100% guarantee and even vaccinated chickens are still carriers.

Drug manufactures make a new vaccine often as there are 6 different herpes viruses that cause Marek's and the viruses mutate often. I'm not sure from all that I've read, if the vaccine protects against all strains of the herpes viruses but I get the idea that it does or at least tries to.

It's a killer chicken disease. Terrible.
Guppy

 

[Ridgerunner]

Guppy, I have not vaccinated and have never experienced Marek’s. To a certain extent maybe blind luck, but maybe not totally. When I first moved here, I called my county extension agent. This is a huge area for commercial chickens so chickens are well covered. He put me in touch with a chicken disease expert. We discussed how I planned to manage my flock and what diseases were prevalent in this area. There had been one and only one reported case of Marek’s in this county during the previous two years. I did not consider that a great threat.

I keep a closed flock. I do not take chickens to shows or go to chicken swaps. I do not bring new strange chickens to my flock. I get hatching eggs that I hatch myself or get chicks from a major established hatchery when I want new blood. I’m really not worried about importing a disease from a major hatchery. So my chickens are just not that exposed to any new disease.

I feed my incubator chicks dirt from the run on day two or three in the brooder, which is in my coop. My broodies raise their chicks with the flock. I want them exposed to everything the adults have right from the start so they can work on their immunities. That won’t work on Marek’s but it will on Cocci.

I’m really sorry to hear you have experienced Marek’s. Maybe someone upwind has an infected flock? The wind will carry dander a long way. Hopefully in your research you read that not all chickens always come down with Marek’s even of it’s in your flock. There are different kinds of Marek’s. Some affect maybe the neck, others maybe wings or legs. Some affect other things like internal organs. Some are more virulent than others, though none of them are good. Hopefully you got a milder type.

 

[GuppyTJ]

Hi Ridgerunner,

Thanks as always, for the thoughful response. And the kindness. I see how you've avoided it and some of these ideas, I can re-apply, so thanks for this.

How I got an active case of it, I don't exactly know and probably never will. I realize that I need to face reality and recognize that I have Marek's on my property for as long as I keep chickens. These chickens free range over a very wide area, wandering all through different parts of the barn, barnyard and woods. It's likely everywhere and there's no getting around this.

This may mean how I had intended to manage my flock may need to change or at least how I think about it may need to change. For example, I originally intended to have a broody raise my next batch of chicks. I could still do this but I would need to get comfortable with the fact that a good portion of them could likely die of Marek's... and infect the others...? This doesn't sound good. I need to rethink this.

I have talked to the county extension office in the past and they have no chicken expertise there but directed me to the Poultry department in the Ag college at University of Kentucky. UK is pretty far away from me (3 hours) but I got some good information from them over the phone. I think I'll call them next week and see what they suggest. Talking to someone who knows of these things will help me sort out options for the future.

Much thanks again, Ridgerunner. This forum and us new chicken people are smarter and more at peace because of your contributions here.
Guppy

 

[Eggcessive]

GuppyTJ, are you positive that it is Mareks? I'm not as knowledgable about the disease, but I would try to rule out some other neurological symptom. If your chicken dies I would definitely get a necropsy by the state vet just for piece of mind. There is a link for finding your state vet for others who may not know how to find it: http://agr.wa.gov/FoodAnimal/AnimalHealth/statevets.aspx

 

[GuppyTJ]

GuppyTJ, are you positive that it is Mareks? I'm not as knowledgable about the disease, but I would try to rule out some other neurological symptom. If your chicken dies I would definitely get a necropsy by the state vet just for piece of mind. There is a link for finding your state vet for others who may not know how to find it: http://agr.wa.gov/FoodAnimal/AnimalHealth/statevets.aspx

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure it is Marek's, but... see what you think. She's the right age (14 weeks) and had multiple symptoms: unbalanced due to weak legs which progressed the the straddled 1 leg forward, one back, irregular iris, greying eyes, gaping. Generally chipper and eating well, seemed to be in no pain. All Marek's signs. I culled her after 4 days of illness as she was just getting worse. Had her in my house for 2 of those 4 days. She was also possibly stressed earlier which could have triggered the outbreak/awakening of the dormant virus. She's one of 6 chickens I introduced about 6 weeks ago to an existing group of 10 bigger (16 week old) chickens. She's the smallest of the 6 new ones so was chased a little bit. I tried to manage/minimize this but you know how hard it is to get chickens to behave, especially as they become adolecencents and their hormones start acting up. I've since isolated the 10 in a fenced run from the remaining 5, trying to further reduce the stress to the remaining 5. The chickens also had a mild form of cocci (I believe, less sure about this) so I gave them coccistate meds. The literature states that Marek's often accompanies a cocci infection due the tole cocci takes on the immune system, allowing Marek's to become active.

So... I'm pretty sure it was Marek's. The place that does necropsies is pretty far away (3 hours) and they charge quite a bit for necropsies. I am going to call them Monday and just talk to them over the phone. I did this before and they were very helpful so maybe I can learn a few things that way.

Let me know what you think. Thanks much,
Guppy

 

[Greg in Carpinteria]

Thanks for the reply, Ridgerunner. I'm looking into in ovo vaccination, most of what I have found deals with automated systems used in commercial production although the procedure seems simple enough if one can avoid sticking the embryo and can effectively reseal the hole. It sounds like the vaccine is typically given on day 18, injected though the air cell and the injection site can be resealed with wax. Then there is still the issue of the 7-14 days needed for the vaccine to confer protection/immunity.

I've got another broody incubating a clutch right now, if I go the in ovo route, I'll report back.