meat tough

Discussion in 'Meat Birds ETC' started by BirchHatchery, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. BirchHatchery

    BirchHatchery Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Nov 2, 2009
    indiana
    those of you that raise cornish rocks for meat do you let the meat relax before you freeze them im thinking of doing 25-50 at a time what happens if i just freeze them right away after butchering then get them out to thaw but leave them sit in fridge for a day or 2 before cooking them is that the same effect as letting the meat settle before you freeze them? it would be eaiser for me if i just butcher them then freeze them right away then i can tell my customers to let them set in the fridge for 24 hours before cooking them after its thawed or a total of 2 days
     
  2. galanie

    galanie Treat Dispenser No More

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    Aug 20, 2010
    Colmesneil,TX
    I doubt leaving them to rest after thawing will have the same effect. Because the time frame of the biological happening you're dealing with in resting them right after butchering is long past at that point.
     
  3. EggsForIHOP

    EggsForIHOP Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Apr 18, 2010
    TEXAS
    Quote:Actually...I disagree a little and here is why..just follow me here...

    I don't admit to this often, because people find it odd/creepy...and it comes with the statement that I have NEVER eaten a person, so I can't guarantee it...just follow me here...but...I spent 2 years as a funeral director and YES I embalmed dead people...follow me...please don't think "Oh, she's weird" (I did quit that after all)...

    When we die, especially if for whatever reason plans aren't made yet, money isn't there for the expenses, etc....we are put into cold storage..COLD...sometimes you get lucky and can embalm right away, but not always...follow me...

    BEFORE you embalm, you allow the body to rest at room temp and warm up. Rigor then passes and can also be worked out in you are in a hurry by massaging/moving the limbs and features. Why is this important? Because bodies are then positioned into the pose needed for open casket viewings - they start NEARLY frozen sometimes depending on your equipment, and then become warmer, but still stiff and it can be worked through. Here's the kicker - in a body you have just removed where rigor has set in and you can embalm without refrigerating him/her first - you STILL need to move/massage them limbs and features to get them pliable enough to set correctly. (Also, for what it's worth, in people rigor takes longer to set in than in chickens, so in someone who passes on and goes straight away to being embalmed this is not even an issue - someone will ask, they always do).

    Actually, the "passing" of rigor is SLOWED DOWN by refrigeration, not totally stopped, but it does slow it down...of course with a chicken, you need refrigeration to prevent the spread and growth of bacteria and such...but it did bring us to a minor change in how we process...

    On it's own, rigor will pass on average in 24 hours - it is actually a chemical process, the build up and then breakdown of lactic acids and what not within the muscle tissue...I don't know about animals for sure...but I am guessing in mammals it is all kind of the same....

    I say it is all the same between human and animal because we USED to put things in the fridge or keep them on ice to rest - then I decided to try some of my handy "embalmer tricks" recently...

    When we processed ducks a few months back now, and rigor had set in...I worked and moved the legs and wings for a moment until they had loosened up and I was able to position the bird correctly to be vacuum sealed for the freezer - then I put them straight in the freezer. When I took them out to thaw, I made sure to let them rest for a full day - maybe a little longer - just as I would have PRIOR to freezing following my old methods...then, for just because, I cooked and seasoned one only prior to cooking, no marinade, and cooked away - and it was still very tender and delicious. Did the same thing with our thanksgiving turkey - from processing straight to the freezer, then let it thaw for 24 hours prior to cooking. It was actually still frozen Thanksgiving morning, so I gave it a water bath, and made sure to wiggle the leg and wing (it was cut in half as there are only 2 of us here). Very tender and normal texture - just like turkey, not hard or chewy or tough....

    I also now rest things in just plain old hose water as I process - I figure if hunters have stuff hanging around FOREVER between the kill and the ice chest back in the truck, then 30 minutes or an hour in some cool-ish water won't do any harm. I noticed especially with our turkeys, rigor seemed to pass quicker that way on it's own compared to when we would put them straight on ice while we finished....we used to have ice chests ready and put them in there as we processed and it always seemed to slow down the passing of rigor with lingering stiffness in the limbs...in just plain cool water...they were already starting to loosen up some...

    I'm just saying...not trying to be mean or even disagree without providing some actual reasoning behind it...and I REALLY hate admitting to where the knowledge comes from because then it comes with a million questions I shouldn't answer, or don't want to...but I really think if you have the science behind it to look at it, it seems that straight from the chopping block or killing cone to the freezer (with plucking and gutting in between of course) is not so very bad and as long as it does get to rest at some point the meat will still be tender....

    And that is also why i say I don't have actual proof - I've never pulled a Silence of the Lambs and tried one before the cooler and one after with Chianti and fava beans...so I don't have proof that way...just what I've seen...and yes - in school we did county cases that had been on storage for a while, so some it had passed some it hadn't - then in professional life I did some right away and some that had set for a while and I have seen the difference in all stages...which is why I often compare it to the threads on here about processing and freezing right away...and usually, I just delete that thought and go on....but I had to share...as it does have I suppose scientific basis to it...and I hope no one is offended...just calling it like you read out of a text book as much as possible.
     
  4. Avalon1984

    Avalon1984 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Dec 22, 2010
    Muskegon
    Quote:Actually...I disagree a little and here is why..just follow me here...

    I don't admit to this often, because people find it odd/creepy...and it comes with the statement that I have NEVER eaten a person, so I can't guarantee it...just follow me here...but...I spent 2 years as a funeral director and YES I embalmed dead people...follow me...please don't think "Oh, she's weird" (I did quit that after all)...

    When we die, especially if for whatever reason plans aren't made yet, money isn't there for the expenses, etc....we are put into cold storage..COLD...sometimes you get lucky and can embalm right away, but not always...follow me...

    BEFORE you embalm, you allow the body to rest at room temp and warm up. Rigor then passes and can also be worked out in you are in a hurry by massaging/moving the limbs and features. Why is this important? Because bodies are then positioned into the pose needed for open casket viewings - they start NEARLY frozen sometimes depending on your equipment, and then become warmer, but still stiff and it can be worked through. Here's the kicker - in a body you have just removed where rigor has set in and you can embalm without refrigerating him/her first - you STILL need to move/massage them limbs and features to get them pliable enough to set correctly. (Also, for what it's worth, in people rigor takes longer to set in than in chickens, so in someone who passes on and goes straight away to being embalmed this is not even an issue - someone will ask, they always do).

    Actually, the "passing" of rigor is SLOWED DOWN by refrigeration, not totally stopped, but it does slow it down...of course with a chicken, you need refrigeration to prevent the spread and growth of bacteria and such...but it did bring us to a minor change in how we process...

    On it's own, rigor will pass on average in 24 hours - it is actually a chemical process, the build up and then breakdown of lactic acids and what not within the muscle tissue...I don't know about animals for sure...but I am guessing in mammals it is all kind of the same....

    I say it is all the same between human and animal because we USED to put things in the fridge or keep them on ice to rest - then I decided to try some of my handy "embalmer tricks" recently...

    When we processed ducks a few months back now, and rigor had set in...I worked and moved the legs and wings for a moment until they had loosened up and I was able to position the bird correctly to be vacuum sealed for the freezer - then I put them straight in the freezer. When I took them out to thaw, I made sure to let them rest for a full day - maybe a little longer - just as I would have PRIOR to freezing following my old methods...then, for just because, I cooked and seasoned one only prior to cooking, no marinade, and cooked away - and it was still very tender and delicious. Did the same thing with our thanksgiving turkey - from processing straight to the freezer, then let it thaw for 24 hours prior to cooking. It was actually still frozen Thanksgiving morning, so I gave it a water bath, and made sure to wiggle the leg and wing (it was cut in half as there are only 2 of us here). Very tender and normal texture - just like turkey, not hard or chewy or tough....

    I also now rest things in just plain old hose water as I process - I figure if hunters have stuff hanging around FOREVER between the kill and the ice chest back in the truck, then 30 minutes or an hour in some cool-ish water won't do any harm. I noticed especially with our turkeys, rigor seemed to pass quicker that way on it's own compared to when we would put them straight on ice while we finished....we used to have ice chests ready and put them in there as we processed and it always seemed to slow down the passing of rigor with lingering stiffness in the limbs...in just plain cool water...they were already starting to loosen up some...

    I'm just saying...not trying to be mean or even disagree without providing some actual reasoning behind it...and I REALLY hate admitting to where the knowledge comes from because then it comes with a million questions I shouldn't answer, or don't want to...but I really think if you have the science behind it to look at it, it seems that straight from the chopping block or killing cone to the freezer (with plucking and gutting in between of course) is not so very bad and as long as it does get to rest at some point the meat will still be tender....

    And that is also why i say I don't have actual proof - I've never pulled a Silence of the Lambs and tried one before the cooler and one after with Chianti and fava beans...so I don't have proof that way...just what I've seen...and yes - in school we did county cases that had been on storage for a while, so some it had passed some it hadn't - then in professional life I did some right away and some that had set for a while and I have seen the difference in all stages...which is why I often compare it to the threads on here about processing and freezing right away...and usually, I just delete that thought and go on....but I had to share...as it does have I suppose scientific basis to it...and I hope no one is offended...just calling it like you read out of a text book as much as possible.

    Cool story. Thanks for sharing! I always wonder what it was like to be a funeral director.
     
  5. Jay262

    Jay262 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Apr 21, 2009
    I never let my birds rest after buthering unless i plan on eating them right away then i leave one or two out for a couple days until there not stiff anymore. Putting them in the freezer seems to have the same affect without leaving them out i never have tough birds due to this.
     
  6. turtlebird

    turtlebird Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Dec 11, 2009
    We process 20-25 birds at a time and they are in the freezer within 5 hours. I have never let a bird rest for 48 hours prior to freezing. I let them set in the fridge to thaw for at least 5-6 days before cooking. I do not know if the meat is 'tough' at all, I do know it has more texture than grocery store chicken. We now find that when we are lazy (!) and get some fried chicken from the deli that it tastes greasy and mushy....sort of weird texture. [​IMG]
    Maybe we should try leaving a bird to rest 48 hours to see if there is a difference? We just don't do that because we A) don't have the space to rest that many birds prior to freezing and B) are rather tired of the process and want it to be "DONE" and shove them all in the freezer. It works for us.
     
  7. peterlund

    peterlund Chillin' With My Peeps

    728
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    Jan 29, 2010
    MA Cranberry Country
    Quote:Great scientific approach! Maybe the simple rough handling via machinery at the industrial processors are massaging the birds to the texture store bought birds are known for. I actually prefer the firmer flesh, and by no way label it "tough", but it is noticeably firmer... I will try the no ice method and a quick move around next process event.
    P.S. I like humans with Merlot BTW... Better to have a fuller bodied wine! [​IMG]
     
  8. ChooksChick

    ChooksChick BeakHouse's Mad Chicken Scientist

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    Aug 17, 2008
    Larry, KS
    My Coop
    I always brine overnight for a chicken with a texture like butter. 1/2c salt to 3qts water, with spices like bay leaf, pepper, etc. Yummy!

    Chianti and fava beans! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  9. hydroswiftrob

    hydroswiftrob Chillin' With My Peeps

    310
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    Aug 18, 2011
    N. Texas
    My Coop
    Quote:Actually...I disagree a little and here is why..just follow me here...

    I don't admit to this often, because people find it odd/creepy...and it comes with the statement that I have NEVER eaten a person, so I can't guarantee it...just follow me here...but...I spent 2 years as a funeral director and YES I embalmed dead people...follow me...please don't think "Oh, she's weird" (I did quit that after all)...

    When we die, especially if for whatever reason plans aren't made yet, money isn't there for the expenses, etc....we are put into cold storage..COLD...sometimes you get lucky and can embalm right away, but not always...follow me...

    BEFORE you embalm, you allow the body to rest at room temp and warm up. Rigor then passes and can also be worked out in you are in a hurry by massaging/moving the limbs and features. Why is this important? Because bodies are then positioned into the pose needed for open casket viewings - they start NEARLY frozen sometimes depending on your equipment, and then become warmer, but still stiff and it can be worked through. Here's the kicker - in a body you have just removed where rigor has set in and you can embalm without refrigerating him/her first - you STILL need to move/massage them limbs and features to get them pliable enough to set correctly. (Also, for what it's worth, in people rigor takes longer to set in than in chickens, so in someone who passes on and goes straight away to being embalmed this is not even an issue - someone will ask, they always do).

    Actually, the "passing" of rigor is SLOWED DOWN by refrigeration, not totally stopped, but it does slow it down...of course with a chicken, you need refrigeration to prevent the spread and growth of bacteria and such...but it did bring us to a minor change in how we process...

    On it's own, rigor will pass on average in 24 hours - it is actually a chemical process, the build up and then breakdown of lactic acids and what not within the muscle tissue...I don't know about animals for sure...but I am guessing in mammals it is all kind of the same....

    I say it is all the same between human and animal because we USED to put things in the fridge or keep them on ice to rest - then I decided to try some of my handy "embalmer tricks" recently...

    When we processed ducks a few months back now, and rigor had set in...I worked and moved the legs and wings for a moment until they had loosened up and I was able to position the bird correctly to be vacuum sealed for the freezer - then I put them straight in the freezer. When I took them out to thaw, I made sure to let them rest for a full day - maybe a little longer - just as I would have PRIOR to freezing following my old methods...then, for just because, I cooked and seasoned one only prior to cooking, no marinade, and cooked away - and it was still very tender and delicious. Did the same thing with our thanksgiving turkey - from processing straight to the freezer, then let it thaw for 24 hours prior to cooking. It was actually still frozen Thanksgiving morning, so I gave it a water bath, and made sure to wiggle the leg and wing (it was cut in half as there are only 2 of us here). Very tender and normal texture - just like turkey, not hard or chewy or tough....

    I also now rest things in just plain old hose water as I process - I figure if hunters have stuff hanging around FOREVER between the kill and the ice chest back in the truck, then 30 minutes or an hour in some cool-ish water won't do any harm. I noticed especially with our turkeys, rigor seemed to pass quicker that way on it's own compared to when we would put them straight on ice while we finished....we used to have ice chests ready and put them in there as we processed and it always seemed to slow down the passing of rigor with lingering stiffness in the limbs...in just plain cool water...they were already starting to loosen up some...

    I'm just saying...not trying to be mean or even disagree without providing some actual reasoning behind it...and I REALLY hate admitting to where the knowledge comes from because then it comes with a million questions I shouldn't answer, or don't want to...but I really think if you have the science behind it to look at it, it seems that straight from the chopping block or killing cone to the freezer (with plucking and gutting in between of course) is not so very bad and as long as it does get to rest at some point the meat will still be tender....

    And that is also why i say I don't have actual proof - I've never pulled a Silence of the Lambs and tried one before the cooler and one after with Chianti and fava beans...so I don't have proof that way...just what I've seen...and yes - in school we did county cases that had been on storage for a while, so some it had passed some it hadn't - then in professional life I did some right away and some that had set for a while and I have seen the difference in all stages...which is why I often compare it to the threads on here about processing and freezing right away...and usually, I just delete that thought and go on....but I had to share...as it does have I suppose scientific basis to it...and I hope no one is offended...just calling it like you read out of a text book as much as possible.

    Haha- I was wondering when someone was going to post something like this. I have never said anything because like you I didn't want to be the "odd" person. I am and have been an embalmer for 12+ years. I love my job and yes I use those same techniques you talk about. I never said anything because I didn't want to start a weirdo argument.

    Yes, I agree with you on the room temp bath after cleaning. An ice bath will only prolong rigor.
     
  10. hydroswiftrob

    hydroswiftrob Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Aug 18, 2011
    N. Texas
    My Coop
    Okay EggsforIHOP, I just noticed you are also from Texas. Are you a DIFS graduate?
     

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