Merck Safeguard Goat Dewormer

[noisegeyser]

I know there is already a thread about Fenbendazole, but I thought I should make a thread about this particular product as I'm seeing conflicting reports of how much to use and in what fashion. In the "worming with Fenbendazole" thread, I saw one user had used a 2.25ml dosage of the stuff for every gallon of water, stirring occasionally so it wouldn't settle (what I have decided to do). On the other hand, I've asked about this product on another website and I was told the following:

"Yes, you can use that. It's just 10% fenbendazole. Dose at ~50mg/kg. Weigh your birds. Since that's a suspension, you can use ml instead of weighing. Give 50ml per kg of weight. So if your bird is half a kg, give 25ml."

Since he's talking about administering it orally I had imagined the doses would be different, but in the tens of milliliters? That just didn't sound right to me, and I'm having a hard time finding information on it's use with poultry. Obviously I don't want to hurt my birds by using too much, or not dealing with the problem by using too little. But I'm kind going in blind here. What do you guys think?

What I'm using:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HHLVB8/?tag=backy-20

 

[Pyxis]

Well, that dosage isn't right, the correct dosage is .23 ml per pound. Whoever gave you that other dosage made a lot of mistakes. Firstly, there is not 50 mg/ml in this suspension as he says, there is 100 mg/ml, as is clearly stated on the bottle. And if it was, that would mean you would give them ONE ml of Safeguard per kg, since one ml would contain the needed 50 mg for each kg of body weight. He has told you to give 50 mls per kg.

So he has somehow assumed that there is 50 mg/ml of fenbendazole in this suspension, which there is not. And then he told you to give 50 TIMES what the correct dosage would be even if the suspension was 50 mg/ml.

So, please please please do not give your chickens that dosage. What he told you to do would result in you giving your chickens 5000 mg of fenbendazole per kg of body weight. Do not do that.

Per studies, 50 mg/kg of fenbendazole is what is most effective for parasites in chickens, and that dose should be given 3 days in a row. So, the best dose for chickens to get 50 mg of fenbendazole per kg of body weight, from this suspension, is .5 ml per kg, which is .23 ml per pound.

Now, about putting it in water. You can't actually mix it in water. It's not water soluble, it'll settle right out. Also, there is no way to make sure your birds are getting the correct dosage doing it that way. And, what I've seen bandied about most commonly as the correct dosage is 3 mls per gallon of water. Well, that much would properly dose one 13 pound bird, or two 6.5 pound birds, if they happen to drink a gallon of water in a day (which they won't).

As a hypothetical, let's say you put out five gallons of water, which would contain 15 mls of Safeguard, for a flock of twelve hens, which all weigh about 6 pounds lets say. Even if the Safeguard was evenly distributed throughout the water, which it won't be, and even if each bird drank the exact same amount of water, which they won't, that's still not enough Safeguard to worm them all. Each hen would need 1.4 mls of Safeguard to worm them, and there are only 15 mls of Safeguard in the water. So none of the birds are going to actually get enough Safeguard to give them a proper dose.

Now, there IS a product that uses Safeguard that can be added to the water, because it is made to be water soluble. It is called Aquasol. However, it's only available in huge quantities, such as one liter, and one liter costs $258. So if you want to buy that much, then yes, that type of Safeguard you can add to the water at the correct dose and have work. But trying to use regular liquid Safeguard for goats in the water does not work.

 

[noisegeyser]

Well, that dosage isn't right, the correct dosage is .23 ml per pound. Whoever gave you that other dosage seems to have mixed up mg/kg and ml/kg, and they are not the same thing at all. They also didn't have the correct dosage of mg/kg, anyway. In his example, even if he had the dosage right, the product you are using would have to just happen to have 50 mg of fenbendazole per ml of the deworming suspension - and it doesn't. There is actually 100 mg per ml. And even if it DID have 50 mg in one ml, then one ml is what you would be giving per kg of body weight. 50 ml would be 50 times the correct dose, because that would be 2,500 mg of fenbendazole per kg. But again, 50 mg/kg is not even the correct dose anyway.

So, please please please do not give your chickens that dosage. What he told you to do would result in you giving your chickens 5000 mg of fenbendazole per kg of body weight.

Per studies, 20 mg/kg of fenbendazole is what is most effective for parasites in chickens, and that dose should be given 3 days in a row. So, the best dose for chickens to get 20 mg of fenbendazole per kg of body weight, from this suspension, is .5 ml per kg, which is .23 ml per pound.

Now, about putting it in water. You can't actually mix it in water. It's not water soluble, it'll settle right out. Also, there is no way to make sure your birds are getting the correct dosage doing it that way. And, what I've seen bandied about most commonly as the correct dosage is 3 mls per gallon of water. Well, that much would properly dose one 13 pound bird, or two 6.5 pound birds, if they happen to drink a gallon of water in a day (which they won't).

As a hypothetical, let's say you put out five gallons of water, which would contain 15 mls of Safeguard, for your flock of twelve hens, which all weigh about 6 pounds lets say. That is 70 pounds of birds. Even if the Safeguard was evenly distributed throughout the water, which it won't be, and even if each bird drank the exact same amount of water, which they won't, that's still not enough Safeguard to worm them all. Each hen would need 1.4 mls of Safeguard to worm them, and there are only 15 mls of Safeguard in the water. So none of the birds are going to actually get enough Safeguard to give them a proper dose.

Now, there IS a product that uses Safeguard that can be added to the water, because it is made to be water soluble. It is called Aquasol. However, it's only available in huge quantities, such as one liter, and one liter costs $258. So if you want to buy that much, then yes, that type of Safeguard you can add to the water at the correct dose and have work. But trying to use regular liquid Safeguard for goats in the water does not work.

I see. I'll write down the correct figures and see if I can get a hold of someone to help me give them the Fenbendazole then, I've never given anything with a syringe and don't want to risk getting it down the wrong hole and getting it in their lungs. I've heard of some people saturating bits of bread with the correct dosage and hand feeding them, do you see any fault in this idea? I just want to stress them as little as possible, and like I said I have never given medication orally like that before.

 

[Pyxis]

I see. I'll write down the correct figures and see if I can get a hold of someone to help me give them the Fenbendazole then, I've never given anything with a syringe and don't want to risk getting it down the wrong hole and getting it in their lungs. I've heard of some people saturating bits of bread with the correct dosage and hand feeding them, do you see any fault in this idea? I just want to stress them as little as possible, and like I said I have never given medication orally like that before.

Nope, that would be totally fine - that way you still know they are each getting the correct dosage

 

[DobieLover]

I know there is already a thread about Fenbendazole, but I thought I should make a thread about this particular product as I'm seeing conflicting reports of how much to use and in what fashion. In the "worming with Fenbendazole" thread, I saw one user had used a 2.25ml dosage of the stuff for every gallon of water, stirring occasionally so it wouldn't settle (what I have decided to do). On the other hand, I've asked about this product on another website and I was told the following:

"Yes, you can use that. It's just 10% fenbendazole. Dose at ~50mg/kg. Weigh your birds. Since that's a suspension, you can use ml instead of weighing. Give 50ml per kg of weight. So if your bird is half a kg, give 25ml."

Since he's talking about administering it orally I had imagined the doses would be different, but in the tens of milliliters? That just didn't sound right to me, and I'm having a hard time finding information on it's use with poultry. Obviously I don't want to hurt my birds by using too much, or not dealing with the problem by using too little. But I'm kind going in blind here. What do you guys think?

What I'm using:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HHLVB8/?tag=backy-20

That is an outrageously high overdose of 10% liquid goat wormer!!

FOR NO EGG WITHDRAWAL:
Read this. This is for Safeguard Aquasol which is not the same as the goat dewormer as it has an emulsifier in it to keep the fenbendazole homogeneously mixed. The goat dewormer will settle out as it is a suspension and thus inappropriate for dosing via waterer. It should be given to each bird orally.

The study above states that 1.5 mg/Kg for 5 consecutive days is effective for removal of A. galli and H. gallinarum in laying chickens and egg residues remain below the 2.4 ppm limit. The label actually states to use at 1 mg/Kg. I use the 1.5 just to make sure I get an effective dose.

The liquid goat dewormer is 100 mg/ml. So dosing 50 ml of this straight out of the bottle is 5000 mg. WAAAY too much.

I dilute the liquid goat dewormer 1:10 (after shaking the bottle very well to ensure a homogeneous suspension) to bring the concentration down to 10 mg/ml. I will then dose my chickens orally with the diluted suspension which also must be well mixed prior to drawing it up in a 1 cc syringe. To dose this solution give 0.068 mls/pound. I just draw it up in the 1cc syringe and squirt it onto a pea sized piece of bread and feed it to the bird at roost time. It's very easy.

You can also do the higher dose of 20 mg/Kg but that requires an egg withdrawal period.

 

[casportpony]

The study above states that 1.5 mg/Kg for 5 consecutive days is effective for removal of A. galli and H. gallinarum in laying chickens and egg residues remain below the 2.4 ppm limit.

But this dose will not treat capillary worms.

 

[Pyxis]

So it's actually bothering me a bit, would you mind saying where you got the advice to give way too much Safeguard? I'm worried someone else will see it and try it and kill their birds with an overdose if it's not corrected there.

 

[trudyg]

@dawg53 told me a good way to administer liquid safeguard into their beaks. He said cradle the bird under your arm, so the feathers are secure, then (have your syringe ready with the dose) use the one hand to gently pull down the wattles which will open the beak, squirt in the dose and quickly let the beak close. They'll swallow and, since you did it quickly, it won't go down the wrong pipe. He said practice first w/o the medicine so you see how the beak opening works for you and get the rhythm down.

 

[casportpony]

This is how I give oral meds:
Safely Administering Oral Medications to All Poultry and Waterfowl

 

[DobieLover]

But this dose will not treat capillary worms.

That is true. I'm treating for roundworms.