Mixing the Lavender gene with the diluter B/B/S

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by ChooksChick, Nov 1, 2010.

  1. Yes- this is a bad idea! (please elaborate)

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  2. No- I think it's irrelevant.

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  3. Maybe- I'm not sure.

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  1. ChooksChick

    ChooksChick BeakHouse's Mad Chicken Scientist

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    I opened a question on the threads regarding Lav Orps and Lav Silkies, but not much discussion is going on in response.

    I felt the need to open a non-breed-specific thread to talk about the two dilution genes. Here's the original question:




    CRA-AAAAACK!!!!






    That's the sound of me opening a big can of worms....







    If one ought to only breed Lavenders to Black to improve, and there is a very testy feeling (in general, from what I see) about mixing B/B/S with Lav, I have to ask:

    Why?

    If one could pass a Split off as pet quality because they didn't like something, the Lav gene could, and likely will, get to where it's rolling around hiding recessively often. At some point, it will crop up unexpectedly as Lavender birds become more available in different breeds.

    It will certainly come to pass that a Splash Lav would be a pretty and desirable color, etc.

    Is it really so bad to work with the two colors concurrently in an intentional and predictable fashion? Why can't it be an acceptable practice?


    What are your feelings on this? I may be in agreement after I hear them, I'm just not sure I can agree it's an issue at the moment.




    So, I'll keep going, then:

    On a thread somewhere, there is a shot of a Splash Silkie next to a Lavender Splash Silkie, as someone had asked about how this would look, etc., so I know it's been done and there are others out there who've gone down this path.

    What does a bird with Blue and 2 copies of Lavender look like? Is there any way to know it from Lavender or from Blue? Does it look like one of the two or like something different from Blue or from Lavender? I think this is an important answer in this discussion.

    Since a good practice would be to maintain records that would indicate potential genes as well as known genes in a bird's pedigree, one would be able to track the possibility of Lavender being recessive in a bird. I feel this is a responsible way to handle it, but maybe it isn't? Once culled as a pet, it's not likely to enter the genes of a breeding program, so is it a problem?

    Likewise, the mottled gene is one in which the recessive is not at all (usually) indicated externally and one has to work off of potential genetic material rather than KNOWN- if a bird being introduced to the Mottled pool doesn't make the cut, it's not necessarily killed, yet is often cast out into the world with this hidden attribute. Is this any different? (I'm really asking- not being rhetorical)
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
  2. hcammack

    hcammack Overrun With Chickens

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    Its not a good idea splash and lavender can look the same and I have no idea what the mixed birds would look like I think it would really mess things up. Its much simpler to stick with black birds.
     
  3. TK Poultry

    TK Poultry Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 25, 2009
    Greencastle, Indiana
    I agree. You could confuse the splashes and lavenders messing up your lines. You could breed the mistaken bird to a blue and mess up your line.... I do agree black birds would be best
     
  4. WA4-Hpoultrymom

    WA4-Hpoultrymom Never enough coops...

    Feb 5, 2009
    Monroe, WA
    My Coop
    I've seen uneducated people trying to pass off a splash bird as lavender, because they don't know what lavender (self-Blue) truly is. They see lavender eggs/chicks/birds going for higher prices and don't realize that there is anything different between a lavender (self-blue) bird and a Blue or Splash bird. Better to not throw lavender into the blue/splash mix. It's confusing enough already!
     
  5. ChooksChick

    ChooksChick BeakHouse's Mad Chicken Scientist

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    I feel it's not really hard at all to tell what is Splash vs. Splash Lavender except when so young the feathers aren't fully erupted. Feather shafts and hues seem fairly clear to me.

    If you know the genes you have present, it's also predictable, to some extent.

    What other reasons are out there for avoiding this? Has anyone had personal experiences?
     
  6. ChooksChick

    ChooksChick BeakHouse's Mad Chicken Scientist

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    Quote:Excellent point, thanks!
     
  7. TK Poultry

    TK Poultry Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 25, 2009
    Greencastle, Indiana
    I'm pretty sure I know where you are coming from but I think its discouraged because you have those recessive genes out there and you might not know when they pop up. But I read with the lavender gene may come poor feather quality. I wouldn't want that in my line. I have noticed at least with the lavender Ameraucanas that there feathers are of more poor quality than the Blacks or the Wheatens. I wouldn't want a predictable lavender gene to hurt other qualties in my flock. I can tell a lavender from a splash but I also think the better lavender color comes from the black.
     
  8. ChooksChick

    ChooksChick BeakHouse's Mad Chicken Scientist

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    Quote:Great point! You are absolutely correct about the feather quality- it isn't present in the Splits, so it wouldn't show in the Blues or Splashes if they were Split.

    Lavender can vary in the degree to which it makes the feathers react- some look just raggedy and awful, others look fine- and the degree of damage can be lessened by harsh selection. I wonder whether the Blue gene could mitigate that quality- or whether it would be unaffected at all. Have you had experience with Blue in a Lav?
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
  9. rilly10

    rilly10 Clover Field Farm

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    Just wanted to say thanks for posting this! I know people are always asiking about this!
     
  10. TK Poultry

    TK Poultry Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 25, 2009
    Greencastle, Indiana
    Quote:Great point! You are absolutely correct about the feather quality- it isn't present in the Splits, so it wouldn't show in the Blues or Splashes if they were Split.

    Lavender can vary in the degree to which it makes the feathers react- some look just raggedy and awful, others look fine- and the degree of damage can be lessened by harsh selection. I wonder whether the Blue gene could mitigate that quality- or whether it would be unaffected at all. Have you had experience with Blue in a Lav?

    No I've just been reading up on Lavender because I want to work with Lavender Ameraucana Bantams
     

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