Mystery disease--blood in poop but...

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Noobchick, Oct 7, 2011.

  1. Noobchick

    Noobchick Chillin' With My Peeps

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    . . .not coccidiosis or parasites. I've taken poop samples to two different labs and each has come back negative. My girls are 16-20 weeks old, and their symptoms have been going on now for the last two weeks, to varying degrees:

    Their symptoms: lethargic; jelly like clear and sometimes bloody poop; lots of weight lost to the point that their breast bones are sticking way out; started with my Ameraucana, then went to my Barred Rock, then my Wyandotte. Now my Welsummer seems to be a little droopy, though thankfully not to the point that the first two were at. They're all losing weight, but only seem to be droopy and lethargic one at a time. Sneezing very occasionally; I have chalked it up to dusty bedding and/or eating too fast. They were losing a lot of feathers at one point, but not molting.

    I have done everything I can possibly think of to get them feeling better, and they've improved somewhat but still aren't putting on weight and at least one at any given time seems to be lethargic.

    So far I have:
    given them Wazine, stopped after one day and switched to a different wormer, per the vet's directions. They were on that for a day, until the first poop results came back negative for parasites. I was then told to switch them to an anti-coccidia medicine, which they were on for two days. Then the next poop result came back negative for coccidia.

    They did seem to improve with the Sulmet, but if they didn't have coccidiosis, I have no idea why that would've helped. (Maybe it was just a coincidence??)

    My vet has no idea what could be wrong with them at this point. This situation seems to have also stumped a vet professor at the local university.

    Is there anyone on this forum who has heard of these kind of symptoms??
     
  2. ChickensAreSweet

    ChickensAreSweet Heavenly Grains for Hens

    Could it be subclinical (or rather clinical) necrotic enteritis? You might give this article to your vet.

    The following information is from the below website: (Please note that I cut and pasted here several paragraphs and you must visit the website to read the article to get the information clearly.

    http://www.ihc-poultry.com/page//298

    "No tests for C. perfringens are currently available,....

    The lack of tests for identification of toxic C. perfringens means that diagnosis of subclinical NE depends on an astute clinician. .....

    Davis says that another contributor to NE is animal byproducts. "We have conducted research showing there are literally tens of thousands of clostridium spores per gram in some animal byproducts found in blends. In one study we did, fish meal in the feed was heavily contaminated with C. perfringens. We’ve also found the pathogen in bone meal. So, in some cases, flocks are getting clostridium from their food."

    "With intestinal damage, the normal balance of bacteria is disrupted and mucus production increases. That’s how the intestines respond, by coating their surface. But mucus also provides a food source for C. perfringens. The toxin utilizes mucus and further damages the intestines, and you get a damaging cycle," Hofacre says.

    Once familiar with the disease and the intestinal lesions that characterize NE, says Hofacre, subclinical NE can be diagnosed upon necropsy. The small intestinal surface is covered with mucus and may be thick and rough. The liver may be firm and is a dark, mahogany color.

    Hofacre uses a scoring system with a range of zero to three for assessing necrotic enteritis, he says. Zero would be no intestinal lesions, one would be a mucus covered intestine, characteristic of subclinical NE, while scores of two to three would indicate clinical NE because the intestines would be obviously diseased with bloody exudate in birds about to die or that died."
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2011
  3. WhiteMountainsRanch

    WhiteMountainsRanch Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I'm going to guess a weird strain of Cocci. There are something like 9 different types and Sulmet only treats two of those.

    The the lab diagnosis can be wrong, or maybe they can't see it. The symptoms sound like Cocci to me. I've dealt with it a lot.

    I would put them on Corrid, it can't hurt and could help. You can find it online and then dose by the directions on the back of the jug.

    I would also give them ACV in their water as well as a poultry vitamin/ electrolyte.

    Hope this helps!
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2011
  4. ChickensAreSweet

    ChickensAreSweet Heavenly Grains for Hens

    Quote:I know I already posted a guess but what WhiteMountainsRanch said makes perfect sense to me.
     
  5. Noobchick

    Noobchick Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Great! Thanks to you both. I took one of my girls to another (different) vet who said it sounded like a possible bacterial infection. They're now on 3 1/2 tabs of SMZ-TMP (a sulfa drug) once a day in their water. So far it seems like all my girls are getting better except for one, who is still having the weird bloody/mucousy looking poops.

    I did have them on Sulmet (can't find Corid for sale anywhere around here). They were on it for two days, about a week ago. They did great on it then- no bloody poops. So I stopped Sulmet at that point because the directions said to stop once symptoms cleared up.

    My new vet first recommended using the Sulmet for a longer period, 7 days, in order to get rid of ALL the bacteria she also suggested cleaning their coop completely once during treatment and once immediately after the treatment ends.

    I told her I was not comfortable with using Sulmet that long because of scary overdose stories I've read on here. But now I'm wondering if it'd be a better more effective treatment.

    What do you guys think? Anyone have issues using Sulmet for longer than 2-3 days?
     
  6. WhiteMountainsRanch

    WhiteMountainsRanch Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:

    Yeah I have. I've used it for like a week at a time, until I knew everyone was better. It really is hard on their system though (though mine were fine)... it's just that Corid is a lot better to use. I get mine online.
     
  7. Noobchick

    Noobchick Chillin' With My Peeps

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