Naked Neck Questions

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by cream puff, Jun 14, 2016.

  1. cream puff

    cream puff Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I have a few questions, are NNs a breed in and of themselves?
    Do NN's only have other NN chicks if both parents are NNs?
    What if I want a huge NN, do I just mix one with an Orpington or something like that?
    Are they sex linked, if so why or why not?

    I'm just starting to get into the whole genetics thing and I'm a bit confused.

    What if I had a big NN hen who managed to mate with a Silkie, would I get a huge showgirl? Or a Silkie size showgirl? What determines size?

    I've tried to find the answers in the NN thread but it's too hard to find.

    Thanks!
     
  2. QueenMisha

    QueenMisha Queen of the Coop

    Naked Necks are indeed their own breed. However, typical hatchery stock Naked Necks are more just multicolor, dual purpose birds with naked necks than true Naked Necks.

    The naked neck gene is dominant. So only one parent is required to create a naked necked chick. A bow tie indicates a heterozygote whereas a bird with a fully naked neck or very small bow tie indicates a homozygote.

    That depends on what you mean by "huge NN." Do you mean a bird which fits the standard breed description for a Naked Neck but is much larger? That would require a strict breeding program and many generations of breeding to achieve. However, if you simply mean a very large bird who also has a naked neck, then yes, a simple cross to an Orpington or other large bird would be a start to producing that. Size can be tricky to breed for, though, so it may take more than just one generation to get a really "big" bird. And of course all F1 offspring would be heterozygotes for the NN gene, and so would have bow ties.

    No breed is simply "sex linked." Some breeds are Autosexing but these are rare. Sex links come from a specific cross of colors, not necessarily any specific breed. You could cross two mutts and get a sex link, if they so happened to have the correct genetics for it. So, if you were to breed a Black or Red Naked Neck cock to a Barred* Naked Neck hen, then yes, the offspring would be sex linked. This cross would work in any breed or cross, Naked Neck or not - for example crossing a Red NN cock over a Barred Rock hen would also give you sex linked offspring.

    *I have no idea if Barred NNs are a currently extant variety. I was using a "for instance" example.

    Showgirls are the product of many generations of breeding. It would take many generations to go from a F1 NN X Silkie cross to a real Showgirl. Even many of those who have been working on them for many years have still not achieved "perfect" Showgirls. F1 birds will be bow-tied, most 5 toed, with partial crests and beards. Melanization of skin will vary. None will have Silkied plumage but all will carry the gene for it and so can produce Silkied offspring if bred to each other or back to a Silkie.

    If you are interested in poultry genetics, I would recommend reading this website (if you haven't already) and taking some time to play around with this genetics calculator made by the same guy who runs the website. Both are very educational. I'd also recommend picking up a copy of Genetics of the Fowl by F.B. Hutt if you get the chance.
     
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  3. cream puff

    cream puff Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Ok, I have this one who is homozygote?
    [​IMG]

    She's the biggest one I have, the rest have the bow tie, so that's 1 out of 9. Some are half her size.

    Is it a genetic quirk for the roosters to be extremely aggressive? I had one who scalped 3 of the females (like store the skin right off the scalp, not just pulled out feathers) and was absolutely vicious. We ate him.

    If I breed this chicken pictured with another NN will all their offspring be NNs?

    thanks so much for answering I'll be reading up on the websites you recommended.
     
  4. QueenMisha

    QueenMisha Queen of the Coop

    Yep, that's almost certainly a homozygote. I've never noticed NN boys to be any more aggressive than the average cockerel. Mine have all been proper gentlemen. But any cockerel who attacks a hen needs to be made into stew, so good job. Yes. If you breed her with another homozygote (full naked neck), you get 100% fully naked necked offspring. If you cross her with a heterozygote, bow tied NN, you'll get 50% fully naked necked offspring and 50% bow tied offspring. If you breed her with a non-naked necked bird, you'll get 100% bow tied offspring.
     
  5. cream puff

    cream puff Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Is this how I would get the colours I want?
     
  6. QueenMisha

    QueenMisha Queen of the Coop


    You mean if you wanted to create a naked necked bird (or even true SOP Naked Neck, if you wanted a challenge) in a color you don't have or can't find? Yes, you'd want to find a similar breed in that color and outcross the NN to it. If you use the fully naked necked bird you'll have more offspring to work with, but it's doable with bow tied birds as well, just a bit more of a hassle. Depending on what color you want and how much of a perfectionist you are this could be easy or quite time consuming. Factors determining the difficulty of a breeding project would include the breed's mutations (e.g. crests, feather-legging, beards - for simplicity, stay away from outcrossing to breeds with fancy traits unless they're something you specifically want), the color you are working with (Blue or Black or White might a few generations to get a pretty decent specimen; things like Lacing or Spangling can take decades), and how much of a perfectionist you are (Is size or laying ability important to you? Do you want a specific leg color? Is comb type a big factor? How about personality?)

    For reference, here's a breeding chart for the NN gene. For brevity' sake I'll use gene symbols - "NN" will refer to a fully naked, homozygous bird, "Nn" refers to a bow-tied, heterozygous bird, and "nn" refers to a non-naked necked bird.

    NN x NN = 100% NN
    Nn x NN = 50% NN, 50% Nn
    Nn x Nn = 50% Nn, 25% NN, 25% nn
    NN x nn = 100% Nn
    Nn x nn = 50% Nn, 50% nn
    nn x nn = 100% nn
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  7. cream puff

    cream puff Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Than you so much, it's exactly the information I'm looking for :)

    Are the completely naked chickens a genetic mutation? How does that come about - it's something I would like to avoid.
     
  8. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    Hey! (check my avatar lol)

    the complete nakeds are a separate genetic mutation, nothing to do with naked necks. It's called scaleless because they don't have scales on their legs either. No need to worry about accidentally hatching one, unless you happened to buy from stock that happens to carry the gene.

    In case you look around on this site, some of the totally nakeds happen to also have the naked neck gene. Two separate genes in the same gene pool. That would be the 'how' if you happen to see someone talking of a naked baby out of their naked necks.

    Some lines of my naked necks have the scaleless gene, some lines don't have it at all(and will never throw a naked baby). Hope that makes sense.

    Enjoy your new birds and upcoming projects!
     
  9. QueenMisha

    QueenMisha Queen of the Coop


    You're very welcome. If you have any more questions feel free to ask, I love talking about genetics.

    And x2 on everything Kev said about the scaleless birds.
     
  10. cream puff

    cream puff Chillin' With My Peeps

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    how do you take care of them? do you have to keep them in doors most of the time? Did you get them intentionally or was it a surprise one day when you looked in the incubator? I can just imagine the shock the first time seeing one especially if you didn't know about them in advance. [​IMG]

    So if they're a mutation then any feathered chicken could carry it? or is it specific to certain breeds? They're rather fascinating.... must be pretty rare, I'd never seen anything like them until I saw your avatar.
     

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