New 2 this: possible CRD/MG? Anything more to do?

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by TenHenAustin, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. TenHenAustin

    TenHenAustin Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 28, 2012
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    Background: 11 in flock; 4 are 3 months, 7 are appr. 6 months. Of the flock, 1 presents more seriously than others. Least serious: coughing/sneezing a few times over past week--not more than a couple times in day, usually when dusty outside.

    4 days ago Miriam (Red Star) was sleeping and sounded like she was snoring. (Sadly I thought "interesting! chickens snore!") Note: no discharge or coughing then. All other activity was normal.

    3 days ago Eunice (BA) presented bubbly eye, some coughing. (Looked up frothing eye, started all on water w/tetracycline; no other water offered since. Changing & preparing according to directions.) Miriam was pretty normal, though a little slower than usual, and breathing as described above when sleepign. Eunice & others, but not Miriam, are pretty active and normal now. Frothing eye is going away.

    But Miriam...oh, Miriam!
    2 days ago: less active, more sleep, don't know extent of eat or drink.

    Yesterday: she did go outside; eagerly drank water dripping from hose, walked a bit, took a short dust bath--but did not see her peck for food. Late afternoon picked her up from napping outside, cleaned her crusty nostrils, administered a couple mL's of water (w/tetracyc., garlic, ACV) by dropper. She slept on the roost bar along with others overnight.

    This morning: she was still less active than others...standing/sleeping, had mucous draining from nostrils. Administered more water w/T, G, ACV solution by dropper at 8am; at noon gave pedialyte (several mL x dropper), 4 drops infant vitamins (enfamil brand, w/o iron), and water w/T, G, ACV. Seemed like she wanted more water (and pedialyte) than before, but was sleepy between droppers. When I put her down she walks herself, though slow, and she will open her eyes, but wants to go back to sleep first standing, then roosting/sitting.

    Is there anything more I should be doing? Am I overdoing? Am I too impatient?
    Other notes: comb/waddles on all are normal color, even Miriam's. No foul smell, massaged crop area (I think) but didn't notice hardness or mushiness; maybe emptiness or grittiness--not swollen. Coop maintenance is daily pickup of poo/dirty shavings & add of more shavings, if needed, w/DE. Complete change of shavings w/DE every 2-3 weeks. Egg production was avg of 3/day, up to 4, now 2-3 (we are cooking and feeding back, along w/plain organic yogurt, to flock while on anti-b's). Regular food is ground layer pellet, w/some oyster shell and some scratch mix, veggies from organic garden, plus their free range worms, bugs, etc.

    Sorry this is so long...I'm afraid I will lose her. I Dread culling her, but don't want unnecessary suffering. Willing to wait it out if she is likely to recover with continued nursing. Can someone give me correction or encouragement?
    Thank u--Kat

    p.s.--formula for their water w/antibiotics is, per gallon, 2 teaspoons tetracycline powder, 3 tablespoons ACV (organic, natural), 3 cloves crushed garlic. They seem to like it.
     
  2. ChickenCanoe

    ChickenCanoe Chicken Obsessed

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    IMO the number one issue with chickens is ventilation and stocking density. It's easier to prevent issues than solve them.
    I've raised lots of birds aiming for 1 sq ft. of ventilation per bird and never had problems summer or winter.
    Respiratory issues probably do ask for antibiotics but could be viral.
     
  3. gandybugs

    gandybugs Out Of The Brooder

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    ok so i have the foamy/bubbly eye and the coughing and weak birds... we are on the other antibiotic available to us (can't remember the name, it is a liquid though...) in their water as only water source... have 24 birds (about 10-15 are sick, some worse then others)

    went to vet, couldn't help.... :( Been to many feed stores, no help.... so i am stuck! Is there a good chicken health book/source that would help?
     
  4. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    I wouldnt add ACV or garlic to the tetracycline first of all. Secondly, sick birds usually dont drink much, especially in cooler temps. If they do drink, it's very little. Therefore they are not drinking enough of the medicated water to be effective.
    You'd be better off dosing them orally with tylan 50 injectable. You'll need to use a syringe with a needle to draw the tylan from the bottle. Dosage is orally 1/2cc for standard size birds, 1/4cc for smaller birds. Pull the wattles down and the mouth will open and squirt it in and immediately release the wattles so they can swallow on their own, if you dont, they could aspirate. Do this once a day for 5-7 days, no more than 7 days. You should see improvement in about 3-5 days.
    It's obvious you're dealing with a respiratory disease, probably MG since you didnt smell a foul odor which would indicate possibly coryza. You will have to maintain a closed flock. Birds with respiratory disease are carriers for life. Medications treat, but dont cure the disease. MG can pass through eggs to be hatched. No introducing new birds as they can become infected as well, MG is contageous. Your other option is to cull. Here's a link:
    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps034
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012
  5. ChickenCanoe

    ChickenCanoe Chicken Obsessed

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    The Chicken Health Handbook by Gail Damerow is the best not overly vet tech book I know of.
    Every chicken owner should have it. I got my copy used for $7 on Amazon.
     
  6. TenHenAustin

    TenHenAustin Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 28, 2012
    Austin TX
    Thanks for the help--especially the Tylan injectible and waddles to open info--very helpful!
    Need to take one of our dogs in for post-op check in a.m., so will check w/vet on anything more.
     
  7. TenHenAustin

    TenHenAustin Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 28, 2012
    Austin TX
    [​IMG] Update:

    Miriam continues to not eat or drink, sleeping near constant. Seems she may have laid an egg this morning, though.
    Have maintained schedule of giving liquids (vits & electros), but she is not taking on own--have to give with squirt.
    As expected, no solid droppings--whitish, some yellowish, liquid/mucousy.
    When eyes are open, clear; comb & waddles pink as normal for her & other RS in flock.
    Some nostril drainage; no panting/short breathing; gurgle/rattle is not as loud. (But maybe breathing isn't as deep?)
    Last night switched over to Tylan 50 injectible as suggested (what fun for a flock of 11, especially the 4 younger ones.)
    Took her outside for fresh air; she didn't stay out long, choosing to walk back in (slowly, on her own) after 5-10 minutes.

    Question(s), if anyone can help:
    Can this hen survive when not eating/drinking except by human help? Am I prolonging an inevitable demise?
    Is there anything I have missed or more I should do?
    Don't want to lose her, if it can be helped--but don't want to be cruelly extending something that shouldn't be--how do you decide?
    What do I do?[​IMG]
     
  8. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    What did the vet say about her?
    If you're giving her tylan, give it time to work. Hopefully you'll see improvement soon.
     
  9. TenHenAustin

    TenHenAustin Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 28, 2012
    Austin TX
    Update: Miriam is doing well! [​IMG]

    Dawg53, thank you SO much for your info & encouragement, particularly to be patient with the Tylan 50. (I was expecting "immediate" change--learned a lesson!)

    Day 4 was the most noticeable improvement for Miriam; she has steadily gained since. Two days ago she slowly, but steadily, made her way outside to take a dust bath, and she was pecking a little, though every move seemed to put her back to sleep. Up through the night before that, she hadn't eaten, and don't know if she drank, on her own (for 5 days? maybe more?); and she hadn't wanted to go outside of the coop, even just to be in the run (though, since weather was nice and the others were free-ranging, I put her in the run to get fresh air and warmth. We are in TX with very nice weather these days.)

    When the flock was switched over to Tylan 50 according to your recommended dosage, I also changed up the water by providing, as their only source of drink, water with poultry/livestock water-soluble vitamin/electrolyte mix. They are looking, and sounding, very well.

    Truly, I thought on day 3 she wasn't going to make it--and was still searching for what I might have been overlooking. Even day 4, with small changes, I wasn't sure she'd make it. But it's been a real learning experience in being patient with the hen's system and medication. Constancy seemed important: routine on the Tylan, giving approx. 3-5 mL's fluid by dropper 3x a day during weakest period, and waiting...and, it was worth the work! (Just a clarification: Tylan 50 was given as 1/2 cc/mL for the large birds, 1/4 cc/mL for the small ones. The reference on 3-5mL fluids 3x/day was for what Miriam was given as water w/electrolytes & vitamins when she couldn't or wouldn't eat & drink on her own. Don't want anyone to be misled...sorry!)

    Again, thanks for the support--and glad you are out there! Miriam's glad too! [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  10. TenHenAustin

    TenHenAustin Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 28, 2012
    Austin TX
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012

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