No wonder chickens fed cafeteria style select each element in about the same proportion as it is in the old mixed feeds

[saysfaa]

How much volume can a hen eat in a day? Any size hen - I can adjust for that.

I know how much grain-based feed to figure but if the diet is not based on dry ingredients then it starts to matter how much volume they can eat.

Or I suppose I could do more math and figure most of the ingredients have been dehydrated. I hate math, so in case y'all happen to have an idea, I would appreciate it.

 

[Al Gerhart]

The source for that 1957 study doesn't appear to be available online other than in some articles that Winter wrote in a ag tech journal but the quotes attributed to the work states that the cafeteria method works only as long as the essential nutrients are all available and it points out that the cafeteria style diet did NOT outperform "professionally formulated all mash" diets.

The key takeaway is that Winter's work helped lead to the modern practice of formulating a precise diet and pelletizing it to ensure a uniform diet. Not the opposite, one of people thinking they are smarter and better informed that the nutritional expert that went to college to learn their trade and has measured and tested all the ingredients. Nor does it address the cost issues of sourcing the needed micro nutrients, vitamins, and the like while keeping the cost of the feed competitive with commercial feeds.

Just because something makes you feel better doesn't mean it is better for your flock. By all means have a small percentage of fresh or novel food available but always have a decent quality commercial feed available so the chickens are not harmed.

 

[saysfaa]

...The key takeaway is that Winter's work helped lead to the modern practice of formulating a precise diet and pelletizing it to ensure a uniform diet. Not the opposite, one of people thinking they are smarter and better informed that the nutritional expert that went to college to learn their trade and has measured and tested all the ingredients. ...

My key takeaway is since that is how they formulated the modern practice of pelletized feed before they did all that measuring and testing it may also work for an entirely different set of components. Provided the elements are all available in a way that can be balanced, of course. And eaten, of course, since palatability matters too.

Cost competitiveness is far down on my priorities for this project but what I'm thinking might be in at least some situations.

 

[Al Gerhart]

Palatability is exactly why they pelletize the ration. With a good grind and thorough mixing the pellet will provide a balanced ration. Putting out containers of feeds and supplement and expecting the chickens to "know" is pretty far fetched.

 

[Perris]

One wonders how wild birds survive, with no nutritionist to tell them what to eat and force them to eat what the person thinks best by withholding all alternatives.

 

[saysfaa]

... Putting out containers of feeds and supplement and expecting the chickens to "know" is pretty far fetched.

I thought so too until I saw multiple studies besides the one referenced in the first post of this thread.

It isn't as easy as just setting out a few containers of food. Or, even many containers, necessarily, But it isn't as nearly as far fetched as I thought for a long time.

 

[ABQ chicken keeper]

One wonders how wild birds survive, with no nutritionist to tell them what to eat and force them to eat what the person thinks best by withholding all alternatives.

Perris,
Wild birds eat variety of bugs that eat a variety of foods. I don't understand the cat food trend.
Is anyone feeding hi-protein turkey feed?

 

[Perris]

Perris,
Wild birds eat variety of bugs that eat a variety of foods. I don't understand the cat food trend.
Is anyone feeding hi-protein turkey feed?

I was being sarcastic. Yes indeed wild birds do eat a variety of bugs that eat a variety of foods, and the arthropods are more important than the plants for foraging chickens imo.

I believe the cat food trend is inspired by the idea that cats won't eat cereals, at least not as readily as dogs, so cat food is more likely to contain more animal proteins than dog food, and people are recognizing that animal proteins suit chickens better than a vegetarian or vegan diet, which is often what chicken feed is.

I've no idea about turkey feed.

 

[ABQ chicken keeper]

I was being sarcastic. Yes indeed wild birds do eat a variety of bugs that eat a variety of foods, and the arthropods are more important than the plants for foraging chickens imo.

I believe the cat food trend is inspired by the idea that cats won't eat cereals, at least not as readily as dogs, so cat food is more likely to contain more animal proteins than dog food, and people are recognizing that animal proteins suit chickens better than a vegetarian or vegan diet, which is often what chicken feed is.

I've no idea about turkey feed.

I wasn't sure about the sacasem.
There are some 30% Hi-Protein turkey feeds for those want more protein in their chickens diet.

 

[Perris]

I don't normally employ it because it doesn't translate well in writing, and is the lowest form of humour anyway. But I couldn't resist in that place. Sorry.