Old hens fighting

[2greenboyz]

Hi - My first post - I've been lurking since joining trying to learn all I can. My story - I rescued six hens after they were dumped at the local pond, that was four years ago. The lady that dumped them said they were 5 years old, so the ones I have left are now about 9 y.o. I have two left from the original six, one a RIR (never laid for me) and the other an Araucauna. My husband wanted me to get more so I ended up with 4 pullets from the feed store. A week after bringing them home, my RIR began having respiratory problems, I put her on Doxycycline 13 days and she is back to normal. Had to hand syringe her she wasn't eating or drinking at first. Meanwhile, two of the pullets began (or already had) coughing, sneezing, etc. I tried Sulmet for one day on all since it seemed to be spreading (label says it works fast). Next day one pullet was much worse, so I separated the two out and put them on Doxy. Sorry this is so long already - I've been going through "hell" trying to figure all this out. The two seem better - still have a cough but they still have about a week of Doxy to go per label instructions of 14 days. Meanwhile, today I saw my two old girls fighting. I thought that was strange, as they always had been best friends and the araucana was always submissive to Red. Here they were raising all this dust until I yelled at them and they stopped. I am concerned now that Ari's health is comprised somehow (no symptoms other than possible internal laying and doing more sitting) and so now I'm afraid to leave them together during the daytime. She is old, but I don't want to come home and find that she has been "beaten up". They are sleeping together tonite, all the others are in dog crates (temporary housing) until I figure out how to get the old ladies to accept them into their roost (a top shelf in a metal storage shed with a ladder going up to it.) Anyways, any suggestions or comments appreciated as I'm like a city gal who has had only older hens - (and other pet birds for 30 years). Thanks for any help. Oh, I trimmed some dried poo off of Ari's butt below the vent, (did the same with one of the one's I lost when the other was going through internal laying). Ari was laying, but she stopped completely about a week after the pullets came.

 

[Judy]

Chickens will attack a chicken they feel is sick or "not right" and that may be what is happening between your two old hens.

Sounds like your new birds may have brought a disease home with them. Read here:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/web/viewblog.php?id=9241

And here is another site, on integrating new chickens into a flock:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2593-adding-to-your-flock

 

[chookchick]

The stress of new birds may have also brought out dormant illnesses in your older hens. Sounds like everyone needs to be separated for a while to bring the stress down. I built a 4 by 4 mini coop for the new chickens, with their own run--in a different area of the yard. Once they have gotten back to health, you could try free-ranging them together, or build a new run adjacent to the old one for the newbies until they are more acclimated (use the mini-coop). If you have to separate the old ones, keep them within eyesight of each other so they are not more stressed from being alone. Try to give us more info on the symptoms they are having.

 

[2greenboyz]

Thanks for your replies. My problem is I don't really have any space to separate them - I put the pullets that are on meds in a separate enclosure approx 4x4 but it is inside the bigger run and cannot be taken out thru the access door. It is "built-in" to the covered run which is about 25 feet long by maybe 8 to 10 feet across and shaded by orange trees. At one end is the storage shed which I emptied to provide a roost for the hens. When it gets hot I lock them out of the roost until the temp gets cooler, then place a fan in there for an hour or two. Symptoms: Red was fluffed and gurgling, not eating or drinking. She seems fine now that she finished 13 days of treatment. Ari is just moving slower, sitting more, no fluffing but no laying either. She is not as aggressive about her treats although she does eat. I suspect internal laying as she does seem heavier but the others I had with internal laying held out for months. And, the other older hens I lost never got attacked by another hen - although I did expect it to happen but they left them alone. She is not "firm" when feeling her abdomen, but not sloshy either.

When I was treating Red, all the pullets were in the run with Ari. Red was in the holding pen alone. Everyone could walk past and see her, sit near her, just couldn't drink her meds. I am considering putting everyone on Doxy, but I am concerned about Ari's condition. She is not showing those kind of symptoms and she is old. I have four pullets, two are on Doxy, one seems like she might be getting a cough as I heard her a few times but no other symptoms, no wheeze, gurgle or anything. She is a black sex link, very sweet. The other is a white leghorn, a pig, eats nonstop. The symptoms of the pullets were/are gurgling, coughing, and one had "tears" and it formed like a scab of dried stuff below the eye. After I had her on Sulfa and it did nothing, the next morning her eye was closed. At that time I knew it was worse so I immediately put them on Doxy instead. I use the upper limit on the recommended dose, and add a little vinegar to the water per Storey's book. I also make fresh stuff late in the day, soak it in bread and give them some of that, just the two sick pullets.

I'll have to figure out how to separate the two matriarchs.........I thought about the stress factors as well. Also the new pullets - at the feed store they were exposed to outside birds coming through the fence.

 

[Ridgerunner]

When you introduced the new chicks, you upset the flock dynamics, even if it was a flock of only two hens. The new chickens need to be mixed into the pecking order. The fighting you saw may have just been the pecking order being reorganized. Or the former subservient hen saw her chance to move up in the pecking order if the dominant hen was weakened. Or it may be a weak hen getting attacked. Chickens can be ruthless. I don't know what is happening for sure.

Yiou are in a difficult situation and obviously care greatly for your chickens. I wish you luck.

 

[2greenboyz]

Thanks Ridgerunner for your input. The fighting was between my older hens, I was there for the "showdown" when they finally first met. That was while ago and the old girls had kind of resigned themselves to the new ones. I really do care about my "kids". Let me update everyone on the latest....

Since one of the new ones was occasionally sneezing, I was concerned she might be getting it too. Best to treat early, so I put all four in the "holding pen". As for the older ones fighting, first thing this morning I cut a green plastic chicken screen to kind of fit so each would have her own side of the run. They could see each other but they couldn't get thru. Or so I thought!! Twice, Red managed to get through anyways. No more fights so far, so maybe Red was just feeling her energy and Ari decided she had enough of it. Generally Ari is quite submissive to her - I've seen her crouch. So far so good, and they are together for now under watchful eyes.

DH called the feed store cuz I wouldn't (see my post regarding this one https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=154866&p=2 ) and against my heart, I relinquished my two sick ones. Actually from what he told me I thought they would treat and give them back. When we got there I found out that wasn't the case but it was too late. Besides, they had still been coughing this far into the treatment and I really wasn't comfortable with that, although they appeared much better. I was getting burnt out on trying to juggle all the treatments and where to put everyone. I still have the two being treated just to be sure. I know, I know, don't treat if they are not sick. Considering their history though, I feel better just doing it and doing it early (since one had sneezed multiple occasions). I hope things settle down now, seems like the older hens are a bit more relaxed. I learned my lesson for sure - no more pullets. On the links, yes I had already read the one about colds, now I will read the one on introducing new ones. Thanks for posting that. All I can say is I really miss my debeaked one, but there are lots more that I'm sure will fill the space in my broken heart eventually. I just hope I did the right thing. Thanks for all your help.