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Orpington color question

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by youngbiddy, Mar 28, 2011.

  1. youngbiddy

    youngbiddy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I had one fertile egg out of a small batch of shipped Blue Orpingtons, and I think it's a Splash cockerel. It's not quite a week old, but it's an aggressive eater and quite a bit larger already than all the other chicks hatched at the same time. (mostly BCM) I've got a batch of English-type Lavender Orpingtons in the bator now, and my question is this:

    If the one Orpington is a Splash cockerel, what would a Splash/Lavender mix look like?
     
  2. FourPawz

    FourPawz Chillin' With My Peeps

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  3. youngbiddy

    youngbiddy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Wow, what a great tool! Think I need to brush up on my German..
    I know Lavender is recessive so the genes from the Splash would be predominant, but it does seem like the light color would be prominent.

    Thanks for the tip on forums, this site is so big and has so many features I haven't even come close to figuring it all out. I only just noticed the other day that you can track your posts and topics on the Profile page. [​IMG]
     
  4. FourPawz

    FourPawz Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I know if you breed a splash to a black, you get 100% blue chicks. Blue to splash gives 50% blue, 50% splash and splash to splash gives 100% splash.
     
  5. tgrlily

    tgrlily Chillin' With My Peeps

    Mar 11, 2009
    East Syracuse
    Quote:I'm not being critcal -- just playing the Devil's advocate, I suppose -- and trying to be helpful & informative. Before you do anything, assess the goals to your breeding project. Try not to do things that are going to make it harder on yourself in the end. We've all ended up with a chicken that doesn't fit in a breeding program. Just cuz you have one, doesn't mean you have to keep it or breed it. [​IMG]

    Well, it looks like muddying your lavender gene pool, for one. Here's the problem when breeding Lavender to splash or blue.... you end up with so many more variables than are necessary. Light blue & splash chicks can look very similar to lav chicks when hatched. Because of mixing andalusian blue & self-blue, you would end up with more of a headache, confusion & longer time to reach your goals than necessary. Breeding lav to pure black is straight forward by comparison.

    OK-- first try this version of the Chicken calculator to prove it to yourself:
    http://home.kpn.nl/h.meijers69/kruising.html?mgt

    To make your splash, use blue male & blue female
    Select the splash male & choose lav female -- all blue split to lavender
    select both blue splits -- see how many possibilities you get? [​IMG] Imagine trying to figure out which of the blue, black & splash chicks are splits!

    Now try the same thing with black instead of blue or splash.
    Easier, huh? Since you already have pure lavs, to improve them better to breed to black then line breed the splits back to the lavender parents.

    Here's my question -- if your lavender Project orpingtons are "true English-type," are you trying to make them more American? There are many people selling what they call "Pure Lavender Orpingtons" these days... they're all over ebay!! In America, the Lavender Orpington is still a project, unless you import or buy from an completely imported line. Even Greenfire Farm's Lav Orps are American type & still Projects. If you did spend the boatload of money to buy an imported line, then why mix it with splash? Some breeders here have some gorgeous black orpingtons -- get some of them to work into your lavender program. [​IMG]

    When buying "Pure Lavender Orpingtons" my best advice would be "caveat emptor" -- let the buyer beware! Ask the breeder their lines & have them explain the breeding program that produced your future chicks. Look at pictures of the parent stock & compare them to pictures of Show Winning Orpingtons. A lot of them out there just look like lavender chickens once you know what a good Orpington should look like. Some people are working to improve them, others are doing nothing but breeding visually lavender chickens together to make a profit.

    Sorry if I got off on a tangent!!!! [​IMG] Enjoy your Orpingtons!
     
  6. youngbiddy

    youngbiddy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Aug 2, 2009
    North Carolina
    Quote:I'm not being critcal -- just playing the Devil's advocate, I suppose -- and trying to be helpful & informative. Before you do anything, assess the goals to your breeding project. Try not to do things that are going to make it harder on yourself in the end. We've all ended up with a chicken that doesn't fit in a breeding program. Just cuz you have one, doesn't mean you have to keep it or breed it. [​IMG]

    Well, it looks like muddying your lavender gene pool, for one. Here's the problem when breeding Lavender to splash or blue.... you end up with so many more variables than are necessary. Light blue & splash chicks can look very similar to lav chicks when hatched. Because of mixing andalusian blue & self-blue, you would end up with more of a headache, confusion & longer time to reach your goals than necessary. Breeding lav to pure black is straight forward by comparison.

    OK-- first try this version of the Chicken calculator to prove it to yourself:
    http://home.kpn.nl/h.meijers69/kruising.html?mgt

    To make your splash, use blue male & blue female
    Select the splash male & choose lav female -- all blue split to lavender
    select both blue splits -- see how many possibilities you get? [​IMG] Imagine trying to figure out which of the blue, black & splash chicks are splits!

    Now try the same thing with black instead of blue or splash.
    Easier, huh? Since you already have pure lavs, to improve them better to breed to black then line breed the splits back to the lavender parents.

    Here's my question -- if your lavender Project orpingtons are "true English-type," are you trying to make them more American? There are many people selling what they call "Pure Lavender Orpingtons" these days... they're all over ebay!! In America, the Lavender Orpington is still a project, unless you import or buy from an completely imported line. Even Greenfire Farm's Lav Orps are American type & still Projects. If you did spend the boatload of money to buy an imported line, then why mix it with splash? Some breeders here have some gorgeous black orpingtons -- get some of them to work into your lavender program. [​IMG]

    When buying "Pure Lavender Orpingtons" my best advice would be "caveat emptor" -- let the buyer beware! Ask the breeder their lines & have them explain the breeding program that produced your future chicks. Look at pictures of the parent stock & compare them to pictures of Show Winning Orpingtons. A lot of them out there just look like lavender chickens once you know what a good Orpington should look like. Some people are working to improve them, others are doing nothing but breeding visually lavender chickens together to make a profit.

    Sorry if I got off on a tangent!!!! [​IMG] Enjoy your Orpingtons!

    Oh, I didn't mean to sound like I was going to mess with the Lavender line, I was just curious about what that cross would look like. Sorry for the confusion. I got a few Blue Orpington eggs just to raise as pets with my layer flock because I like Orps, and came across the English Lavender Orpingtons later. Those are so gorgeous that I want to breed them and preserve the English type. They look like fluffy teapots with legs, they're quite simply darling. Love the Orp personality, too.
     
  7. tgrlily

    tgrlily Chillin' With My Peeps

    Mar 11, 2009
    East Syracuse
    Quote:I'm not being critcal -- just playing the Devil's advocate, I suppose -- and trying to be helpful & informative. Before you do anything, assess the goals to your breeding project. Try not to do things that are going to make it harder on yourself in the end. We've all ended up with a chicken that doesn't fit in a breeding program. Just cuz you have one, doesn't mean you have to keep it or breed it. [​IMG]

    Well, it looks like muddying your lavender gene pool, for one. Here's the problem when breeding Lavender to splash or blue.... you end up with so many more variables than are necessary. Light blue & splash chicks can look very similar to lav chicks when hatched. Because of mixing andalusian blue & self-blue, you would end up with more of a headache, confusion & longer time to reach your goals than necessary. Breeding lav to pure black is straight forward by comparison.

    OK-- first try this version of the Chicken calculator to prove it to yourself:
    http://home.kpn.nl/h.meijers69/kruising.html?mgt

    To make your splash, use blue male & blue female
    Select the splash male & choose lav female -- all blue split to lavender
    select both blue splits -- see how many possibilities you get? [​IMG] Imagine trying to figure out which of the blue, black & splash chicks are splits!

    Now try the same thing with black instead of blue or splash.
    Easier, huh? Since you already have pure lavs, to improve them better to breed to black then line breed the splits back to the lavender parents.

    Here's my question -- if your lavender Project orpingtons are "true English-type," are you trying to make them more American? There are many people selling what they call "Pure Lavender Orpingtons" these days... they're all over ebay!! In America, the Lavender Orpington is still a project, unless you import or buy from an completely imported line. Even Greenfire Farm's Lav Orps are American type & still Projects. If you did spend the boatload of money to buy an imported line, then why mix it with splash? Some breeders here have some gorgeous black orpingtons -- get some of them to work into your lavender program. [​IMG]

    When buying "Pure Lavender Orpingtons" my best advice would be "caveat emptor" -- let the buyer beware! Ask the breeder their lines & have them explain the breeding program that produced your future chicks. Look at pictures of the parent stock & compare them to pictures of Show Winning Orpingtons. A lot of them out there just look like lavender chickens once you know what a good Orpington should look like. Some people are working to improve them, others are doing nothing but breeding visually lavender chickens together to make a profit.

    Sorry if I got off on a tangent!!!! [​IMG] Enjoy your Orpingtons!

    Oh, I didn't mean to sound like I was going to mess with the Lavender line, I was just curious about what that cross would look like. Sorry for the confusion. I got a few Blue Orpington eggs just to raise as pets with my layer flock because I like Orps, and came across the English Lavender Orpingtons later. Those are so gorgeous that I want to breed them and preserve the English type. They look like fluffy teapots with legs, they're quite simply darling. Love the Orp personality, too.

    Sorry -- I was trying to explain the genetics & such!! I'm not going to tell you what to do with your own chickens -- just what could happen if you put certain ones together.

    I love all the Orp colors -- except buff -- and am taking on another project with them. They are wonderful & productive birds! There's a girl near me who sells the BBS/lav combo - and she can't tell the difference between them. It confuses the consumer that doesn't understand how the lavender gene works. I even bought a chick that I thought was lavender once -- she was definitely splash, not lav when she grew up. Now I know what works best for me, but your mileage may vary! [​IMG]

    BTW---- Where did you buy your lavenders?
     
  8. kathyinmo

    kathyinmo Nothing In Moderation

    Quote:ENGLISH Lavender???? WHERE?????
     
  9. Illia

    Illia Crazy for Colors

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    Oct 19, 2009
    Forks, WA
    Quote:ENGLISH Lavender???? WHERE?????

    I'm curious too. . . Truly English, and not just project birds? Because I'd love to see that!
     
  10. HenThymes

    HenThymes pippin ain't easy

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    Foothills of NC
    Quote:ENGLISH Lavender???? WHERE?????

    Looks like the one that has been bringing in all the imports is going to have lavender as well according to her website?? [​IMG]

    Those are the only ones I could locate.. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2011

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