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Pale comb, sick looking, isolated, rarely moving bird

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Snack Giver, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. Snack Giver

    Snack Giver Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hi folks. I need help. I am worried sick about our white leghorn named "Q-Tip". She is such a fun and sweet bird. Thats her in my avatar. She doesnt look like that anymore. I am not an expert on chicken illnesses. One of our flock died 18 months ago from CRD/Microplasm (it IS contagious) and it is quite possible that they all have it, but no symptoms have been seen like what our other bird had. About QTIP: She used to be the fastest moving, most energetic and lively bird we ever had. Small and yet the most reliable egg layer ever. Here is what we noticed:

    1)1 year ago: her eggs started having a thin shell, then no shell. Increasing calcium made no difference. Sometimes she just dropped an egg w/out shell while walking around. So no real eggs have been laid in over a year. Maybe not related to her condition now.
    2) Last fall she molted. Her comb got pale and she lost all her feathers. Thats the first time we saw her act sick and isolated.
    3) After molting she never got back to normal. Never moving around fast. Often alone. Lately she isolates at a different part of the yard. She sits and closes her eyes most of the day. She is puffy, looks like she is sick. Her butt is dirty, like she sits in poop. I have washed it twice to try to clean it up. Her comb and face looks pale. VERY pale. She doesnt eat much. She NEVER scratches for worms with the other birds. No normal behavior.
    4) She has leg mites and we have been treating them with some success. She has no other mites under her wings, etc.
    5) She does not have unusual looking poop. It is green, but she eats grass. All the birds eat grass a lot.
    6)She does not have swollen eyes or drainage from eyes and nose (prior microplasm symptoms from other bird),
    7)She does not eat very much.

    This has been going on for months. It has gotten worse in the last 2 weeks. Finally she is the worst ever today. She hardly moves now.

    I went to the local grange/supply shop for help today. We are just now trying sulmet in her water and keeping her seperate. Maybe she has a bacteria, cocci or something that sulmet can help? This was recommended by the shop. But I am open to any ideas from you people. We have yogurt for food because I thought she may have sour crop, But I now don't think absolutely so. No swollen crop that I can feel. Its not huge.

    Folks, I am just grasping at straws. My fun and happy birdy is sick. She is not herself. Today is the worst ever. This has gone on for 3-6 months but is worse now. I just want to help her. Any ideas on what to check for would be appreciated. Pale comb and very listless behavior. Any ideas? thanks. We are heartbroken and worried. Please help.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2014
  2. granny hatchet

    granny hatchet Tastes like chicken Premium Member

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    i hope someone comes to help soon, sounds like you really love your little q-tip. you didnt say if she had been wormed?
     
  3. Eggcessive

    Eggcessive Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

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    She may have egg yolk peritonitis from laying internally, and sometimes from E.coli infection. Sometimes they will have a swollen abdomen from either fluid or from tumors or infection. What do her poops look like? There is not a good outcome from internal laying or EYP. Sometimes penicillin or better antibiotics can prolong life, but many of these chickens may suffer. I also would do some research on vent gleet. which can be a fungal or bacterial infection around the vent.
     
  4. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    Worm her with valbazen liquid cattle/sheep wormer, 1/2cc orally undiluted. Consider worming the rest of your chickens as well.
     
  5. Snack Giver

    Snack Giver Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Ok my birds have not been dewormed. I have examined everyone's poop and see no worms. My sick Leghorn has runny poop but there are no worms of any size that i can detect. Right now I have her sitting indoors with me. She sits with her eyes closed all day. It is cold and raining out, I brought in.

    I happen to have piperazine dewormer (called Pig Swig). Should I just give it. It only treats round worms. Can I give it right into her beak instead of the water supply (she's not eating or drinking much)

    Can my lethargic bird have worms and they not be visible? Thx Dawg and everyone else too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
  6. Snack Giver

    Snack Giver Chillin' With My Peeps

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    [​IMG]

    This is "Q-TIP", my sick bird today (just now). I am letting her sit inside to be warm and dry. She is declining. She is dirty in the pic because yesterday she was dustbathing in the sun and I was so happy to see her move. Today she is cold and it is wet out. I have her inside, with yogurt, fruit, water, fermented mash, and a porta-carrier for sleeping in.

    The frustrating part for me is that I don't know what to do. I have been on this board for years and I have learned so much about coops, behaviors and feed. But sometimes when people give sick bird advice, they mean well but I don't know why they just gave it. Some people just blurt out opinions and instructions seemingly willy-nilly. When someone gives a one-line response like "Use dewormer XYZ." and thats it..? I wish they would say WHY and what makes them think that. It could help me so much! I want to believe users on here with thousands of posts but I don't want to give 2-3 different powerful treatments all at once.

    I have spent days and days trying to help my little Leghorn. I only know she is lethargic, won't eat and has bright green poop. Her eyes are closed and her comb is pale. The other stuff about no-shell eggs was a year ago. Before that I had a different bird die from microplasm. I've wondered if QTIP has that now, too (but her symptoms are different).

    There is no worms in any poop, not tiny ones, long ones, none.
    The bright green poop led me down a path where people give similar advice that ranges incredibly. More than one person said to use Tylan 50 injection for bright green poop. WHY? Someone else said "green poop means she is not getting any nutrients in her system, she is basically starving." ***? 2 posts later somebody said "Green poop is one of the symptoms of mareks". REALLY? Then somebody says "I would treat her with an antibiotic as its hard to know what is going on." A few lines later some says don't use anti-biotics. Somebody else says it could be vent gleet. I checked her bottom, yes it is dirty, but not like a yeast infection, not smelly.

    Folks, if any of you could help me with solid advice, based on solid reasoning. Please just tell me why you are coming to the suspicion you are. I am going down 5-6 different paths. Right now I am giving her Sulmet anti-bacterial in her drinking water. I have only now decided to do this. After reading about Sulmet, I sent my wife to get Corrid, for better coverage of problems. I have tried yogurt and vitamin waters hoping it would help. I am doing the Sulmet/Corrid because somebody who owns the local chicken grange suggested it. I will do a dewormer soon too, but all I have is Pig Swig and it goes in the water like the Sulmet/Corrid. Do I really want all those chemicals in her water at once? I am not convinced she even has worms, I don't see any anywhere. I also have Tylan 50 and an injector, but I won't do it until I read a good reason to try. Researching this is so difficult and it is hard to nail down what to do.

    Again, any sound advice is welcome. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
  7. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    I'll tell you why you should worm all your birds, particularly your Leghorn: You described her as lethargic, pale comb, not laying eggs, green poop, puffy looking. These are typical signs of worms, that's why I recommeded that you worm your birds. Chances are, if one bird has them, then the others do as well. You dont have to wait to see worms in poop to worm them, by the time you see worms in poop, alot of internal damage has already occured and worm eggs have been deposited onto the soil to be picked up by your other birds. Why would a parasite want to leave its host?
    When I read a post like yours, I start with basics and keep it simple, then work my way "up the ladder" so to speak. I look to see if it's an environmental issue first. If not, I move up to the next level which would be basically 3 things; external parasites, internal parasites, eggbound or any combination of these. These three things can cause other more serious complications/symptoms and are usually the root cause of alot of diseases. Parasites weaken the chickens immune system opening the door for respiratory diseases, viral diseases, and fungal problems.
    Worms or mites couldve possibly played a role with your birds contracting MG or at the least, causing worse symptoms in your flock. Of course if you introduced a carrier bird into your flock, parasites would take a back seat in this instance.
    Pig swig only gets rid of large roundworms. There are worms that affect the crop, windpipe, gizzard, eyes, guts.... that is why I recommended valbazen. Valbazen slowly kills all types of worms over several days preventing toxic dead worm overload in the digestive tract. Piperazine causes a massive kill off of large roundworms and if a bird is infested with them, the toxicity of the dead worms and their feces can actually kill the bird.
    If you are uncomfortable with the recommendations that others have made, including me... no one here is an avian vet expert and I suggest that you contact your local extension office or your state department of agriculture and find out how and where you can get your Leghorn tested; either by bloodwork, fecal samples, or necropsy. Good luck with whatever you decide.
     
    5 people like this.
  8. granny hatchet

    granny hatchet Tastes like chicken Premium Member

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    Dawg, you are awesome. now come look at my bird with the bad eye.[​IMG]
     
  9. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    Where's your thread at Granny?
    I found it on page 2...I'll take a look. I've dealt with eye problems a couple of times.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
  10. Snack Giver

    Snack Giver Chillin' With My Peeps

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    OK thanks Dawg for putting your thinking and reasoning. I tried to write it as carefully as I could so as to not offend anyone, which is not easy to do. I always want to know why I should do something. If anyone checks my post history they will see I have tried to be nice, helpful, serious, and a good member on here for years now. I do need this forum. I had spent hours and hours searching old threads and only after doing that did I start my own thread about my leghorn. I know there other are people on here with desperate situations and serious trauma. I don't want to waste good people's time by over posting. I also don't want to go to somebody else's thread and hijack it. That is rude.

    Dawg, I like your opinions on how to nail down a problem, the pathology. It seems like sound advice. A parasite. I didn't know that a hen could have worms and not have them visible in the poop. Thank you for informing me, I will absolutely go where ever I must to get the Valbazen wormer today. I have not used any Pigswig yet and now I won't. Since yesterday I have started Corid. This is because the owner of the local grange said it helps with a myriad of problems. So I don't know if I should just stop giving Corid and now change directions or do both Corid and Valbazen at same time. Any thoughts on using both those medicines at once? THX for patience. I have not been sleeping because of this bird I am so worried.

    Is using both Corid anti biotic and Valbazen dewormer at the same time OK or not?
     

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