1. If this is your first time on BYC, we suggest you start with one of these three options:
    Raising Chickens Chicken Coops Join BYC
    If you're already a member of our community, click here to login & click here to learn what's new!

Partridge Marans French Standard New Project

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by cowman1970, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. cowman1970

    cowman1970 Out Of The Brooder

    This is a new variety that I will be working with in 2014.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Description: Golden Partridge Marans. I only know of one other flock in the US that did not come from our flock. This color pattern has been very puzzling. After studying other breeds and feather patterns, the brown gene that we are dealing with is a partridge. Since they came from a recessive gene in our Blacks and Black Coppers, there is a varying number of the Gold gene carried by these birds. The individuals carrying two copies of the gold gene are a beautiful golden partridge. Those carrying none of the gold gene have a much different feather pattern unlike any I have seen. We call those our Brown Haydens. The brown gene in both these varieties breed 100% true. We hope to be adding chicks from the unrelated flock to ours within the next couple of months. We have the color and leg feathering close to what we want, so now we are focusing more attention to the egg color which does need some improvement. Chicks will ship on Monday or Tuesday after auction end. Thanks for looking at our ad.
     
  2. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

    7,473
    1,508
    401
    May 19, 2009
    western PA
    My Coop
    Is this variety based on e+ or eb locus?
    Do you have a picture of the chick down?
    Thanks,
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
  3. cowman1970

    cowman1970 Out Of The Brooder

    I have no idea whether or not they are e+ or eb locus. I don't have a photo of them when they were hatched. The photos posted are the parents of the pullets and cockerels that I hatched. They came from a fellow from Kentucky who also developed Brown Hayden Marans which aren't really too different from the Partridge variety. I will post the pics that he sent to me. Here is a link for both varieties:

    http://www.rarebreedauctions.com/auction_details.php?auction_id=114029

    http://www.rarebreedauctions.com/auction_details.php?auction_id=115198
     
  4. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

    1,984
    120
    204
    Jul 19, 2008
    Missouri
    They appear to carry the brown allele. That is good, partridge or gold penciling is best when expressed on a brown fowl.

    Tim
     
  5. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

    7,473
    1,508
    401
    May 19, 2009
    western PA
    My Coop
    Actually, Tim, it's not good, not good at all. Before the turn to eb partridge, both here and across the pond, the eb locus never existed in the Marans breed. If they had built them on Wheaten, the colors might not have been as good but they would have stayed within breed parameters. We all know that (ignorantly or well-intentioned) these partridges are going to get bred to e+ Golden Salmon (BBR) and eWh Black Tailed Buff Marans. It will cause many unwanted problems in all three varieties and imperil the valiant effort now being made to select true breeding Golden Salmon Marans. The eb ,e+, eWh crosses will be difficult for novice breeders to differentiate making even more of a mess of these three varieties. Take a look at this stunning Golden Salmon Marans cock.
    http://waterfordsussexandmarans.webs.com/apps/photos/ Pretty, huh? He is e+/eb. I had a lovely chick pic of him wearing his eb brown helmet before yahoogroups deleted it when they changed their format..
    Long sad sigh,
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
  6. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

    7,473
    1,508
    401
    May 19, 2009
    western PA
    My Coop
    How very sad. He should have continued to be dismayed by the impurity of his birds.
    All the funky colors he talks about as part of his breeding scheme are nothing more
    than crossings of e+, eb, and possibly eWh birds. eb does not exist in Marans. So if he
    was getting eb out of his Black Coppers, then there was foreign blood in there somewhere.
    Golden Salmon were crossed with Welsummer at one time. Very ill advised.
    Best,
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
  7. cowman1970

    cowman1970 Out Of The Brooder

    Do you still have this bird?
     
  8. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

    7,473
    1,508
    401
    May 19, 2009
    western PA
    My Coop
    Which bird? The one in the photo essay? Alvin? No, I traded him to a farmer several hours
    from here for a lesson in how to process a hen. She needed a stud rooster for her flock.
    Alvin was happy to oblige. He was no good to me for trying to breed Golden Salmon Marans.
    A project I finally abandoned in favor of Light Sussex.
     
  9. cowman1970

    cowman1970 Out Of The Brooder

    What reason did you have for giving up on the Golden/Silver Salmon Marans?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
  10. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

    7,473
    1,508
    401
    May 19, 2009
    western PA
    My Coop
    Everything I could find in 5 different starts over multiple years was either totally polluted with autosomal red
    ( at least one parent has to be clear to breed it out), the birds had been crossed with eb ( noted by brown helmet)
    or the source was a rip-off . The trick is to find a pure Golden Salmon hen. The hens tell the tale on purity. I never found one.
    The males can hide melanizers genes and crossed locuses because of their BBR coloring.
    People keep thinking that by breeding 2 colors together they can get Golden Salmon. But GS isn't a color
    as much as it is a lack of all the other colors. Breed GS by winnowing out color genes and modifiers until
    only s+ is left on the e+ locus. Anything else corrupts and destroys it. There are no hypostatic genes in Golden Salmon.
    ( Black-Breasted Red )
    Best,
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by