Penelope update; (impacted crop better) need advice: diarrhea???

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by SeaChick, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. SeaChick

    SeaChick Chillin' With My Peeps

    Apr 25, 2007
    Southern Maine
    Hi all,

    Olivia and I were away visiting sick Nana this weekend. DH took care of Penelope (who'd had an impacted crop last weekend) and she seemed much better when we got home last night. Her crop seems good, if not 100% better then at least 90% better. DH had been bringing her in at night and feeding her 1/2 a hardboiled egg and soft-soaked pellets morning and night to get her strength up. She seemed better, softer/shinier feathers, not very much of the "dandruff" stuff she'd had, etc.

    This morning I brought her inside to watch her and give her mashed cooked egg. She ate well but I kept her in to see her poop.... took 2.5 hours and finally she had a massive poop.... then moments later a very icky yellow-brown diarrhea, sort of the consistency of whipped cream. In other words, not watery/runny, but a kind of soft whipped mass with no solids in it (the solids, grass she'd eaten yesterday, were in the first massive poop which also had the white urates and just a bit of this yellowish foamy stuff.

    To be fair, I had given her about 2 Tbsp of this caged-bird food for nestlings, moulting, etc, which is rather yellowish in color. Maybe it's just that???

    Should I be worried?

    I have looked closely at the poop (gross. I haven't spent so much time thinking about poop since Olivia was an infant!!!) and see no evidence of worms. She has DE in her feed. The other girl who lived at the same place has no signs of anything wrong..... but does this sound like a worm issue? I wonder if I should worm her?

    What do you all think?

    THANK YOU!!

    Stacey
     
  2. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    Jan 11, 2007
    Penelope needs the balanced nutrition from her feed so when you give her a cooked egg (so not mixed in through her feed) I do not think this is really ideal...
    the handfeeding formula (through her feed) to concentrate the nutrition is best but you will slowly need to change her over and then I suggest you add AviaCharge 2000 to replace that (it is the only complete nutritional/vit supplement I know of...you can add in water but as they often object to the taste change in their water I would suggest you make up some cooked human oatmeal (just cook a couple minutes in water not milk) take a couple tablespoons of that and add the aviacharge and mix that in with her normal feed (the feed needs to be moist for the next couple weeks)... she seems to have come so far in resolving the crop issue (you are very lucky). I feel it is really too early to make any judgement on the poo issue... her gut is probably still getting back in order. If the poos continue to be abnormal (all of them) then there might indeed be an issue with worms and I would suggest you use the (spot-on ) ivomec Eprinex then.
    Please do not mix in any more DE until the crop issue is totally resolved. It is not going to resolve any active worm issue anyway.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  3. SeaChick

    SeaChick Chillin' With My Peeps

    Apr 25, 2007
    Southern Maine
    Hi dlhunicorn-

    Thanks for your prompt reply. I was just reading thorugh your "poo-ology" page again.

    My instinct is that you are right... I think that her gut is just unbalanced right now. I'd be surprised if it was worms since some of her droppings do look totally normal.

    The vet told me to feed her normal feed (i.e. layer pellets) softened with water, and that has been the bulk of what she's eaten for the last week. I had been giving her 1 mashed cooked egg daily (1/2 morning, 1/2 evening) mixed with the softened feed, simply because she'd lost so much weight and had no breast meat and I felt she needed a "boost". Perhaps that is not best.

    I had NOT been giving the cage-bird stuff (which I will describe below) because that is what she was getting that first day, along with yogurt, when her crop got all huge and gassy/squishy after it had emptied some. but while I was away, DH gave her some, so I thought to try it again this morning. I also gave her a bit of yogurt, and perhaps it's that combo which, again, upset her tummy. I also noticed some mucusy stuff on the floor of the cage, mixed with a bit of the cage-bird-food, that looked as though it might have been regurgitaiton, also worrisome.

    The cage-bird stuff is "Peak Health Formula" for nestling/moulting/conditioning and it includes: "egg biscuit (egg, wheat meal, sugar), honey, white millet, niger thistle," and a bunch of vitamins. I have a suspicion that all that sugar is not good for her.

    I should also add that she has been out with the other girls during the day, and acting just fine. We're only bringing her in at night to make sure she's getting enough good food, keep her warm, and monitor her progress. She was really getting bored in the little cage all day!

    So....... I will order some AviaCharge (is it something a feed store might have? And is it better than the Durvet Poultry Pak I have?) and give it to her in oatmeal. I will continue with the soaked feed as per vet recommendations. i'm not sure I ought to offer any yogurt or this cage-bird stuff for a while though. Is there anything else I can give her to get her weight on quicker? Do you think I should discontinue the eggs, or cut back the amount?

    Also- she does not seem to be drinking much water. The vet thought that may be because she is eating the soaked food so getting her water that way. I noticed she will drink it off the ground if it spills, but not out of the waterer or bowl (offered various ways at various heights). strange.

    Thanks so much!
    Stacey
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  4. Windy Ridge

    Windy Ridge Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Oct 3, 2007
    Appalachia
    It could be that the sugar in the cage bird diet you describe has upset her tummy. Sometimes sugar will give birds diarrhea.

    I don't have a guess as to why she wouldn't be drinking... that's worrisome, especially if she's had diarrhea. Could the waterer be imparting an off-taste to the water? Sometimes galvanized ones do that as they get older. You've probably already done this, but just in case you haven't, just try dumping the old water and giving the waterer a good scrub and sanitizing before refilling. If it's a plastic waterer, make sure there isn't any "gumminess" on the plastic, as sometimes happens.

    However, your vet may be right that she's just getting water from the wet pellets. It's just strange she wouldn't drink out of the waterer... but then again, sometimes my chickens prefer to drink out of a mud puddle than out of their nice, clean waterer, so she may just be feeling finicky, too.

    I hope she gets to feeling better!
     
  5. SeaChick

    SeaChick Chillin' With My Peeps

    Apr 25, 2007
    Southern Maine
    Thanks Windy,
    yeah, I cleaned all the waterers really well, and I stopped putting ACV in the one in ther crate (that she would drink out of when I have her inside and under observation) because I thought that might be the issue. However, there are 2 other waterers in the coop, one plastic, one metal, both new this summer, both clean with fresh water. I was just out watching the girls and everyone else made several trips to drink, except Penelope. [​IMG]
    Hopefully it's just that she's getting the water in her food. I will keep an eye on it.
    Thanks!
    Stacey
     
  6. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    Jan 11, 2007
    If she is drinking insufficiently then you need to put electrolytes/vit in the water (this is the DURVET you have >yes?) You cannot combine the electroytes (Durvet) with ACV... once she is drinking sufficiently you can stop the electrolytes as they should not be given unless their is indication for them (panting or dehydration or stress/shock)...once you are no longer giving the electrolytes then you can add acv (but please check the water pH first with a pH strip and with the help of the strip tester you can figure out how much you will need to add > do not let the water pH lower than 4.5)
    I dont think this is the right time to add yogurt or sugar or anything with yeast as it might cause static crop contents to ferment.
    The AviaCharge 2000 can be purchased online from McMurray Hatchery or Strombergs.
     

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