Percent Show quality from SQ parents?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by country, Dec 19, 2008.

  1. country

    country Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I read somewhere on BYC that a breeding of winning show quality parents would give about 50% chicks that are show quality. So...if I ordered eggs from a well-known top show quality Silkie breeder, got a 50% hatch & the chicks are all crap, many with DQ faults, should I assume that the 50% that didn't hatch were probably the show quality chicks? And, if I got 80% of the same crappy type chicks to hatch from eggs bought from another top breeder, then "Boy Howdy" I just betcha that those 20 percenters would definitely have been top of the line, guaranteed show quality champeen winners. I've had this happen with 4 batches of eggs from 4 well known breeders, so I know it must be so.....
     
  2. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    I read somewhere that about one in 10 chicks is a keeper.
     
  3. geareduplyn

    geareduplyn Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I always figured that if I could get one out of 20 to always place in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in the class I was doing well in stiff competition. To have show winning birds as opposed to show quality birds, cull, cull, and cull some more. In some breeds to have good show lines a male andf female line must be maintained as in Red Shouldered Yokohamas for example.
     
  4. seriousbill

    seriousbill Chillin' With My Peeps

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    pips&peeps :

    I read somewhere that about one in 10 chicks is a keeper.

    That sounds more right to me.​
     
  5. country

    country Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I would imagine that the percentages you've all given would probably be about right, depending on if I was looking for winners, show quality, or maybe even breeder quality. And I can live with that.
    However, my biggest complaint is the overall BAD quality of the chicks that hatched. I know that buying from a well-known breeder with lots of SQ winners doesn't necessarily guarantee me a winner but shouldn't I have at least a few that show some potential? And is it wrong to expect a lesser quantity with disqualifying faults than I might get if I bought eggs from a bottom of the line hatchery? I mean, my first Silkies were pet quality, & after adding 3 pair of breeder quality Silkies and 3 years of culling (consisting of putting all the "not so pretty" Silkies in a huge pasture where they can live out their lives having fun & laying eggs or crowing for my enjoyment), I'm getting some very nice chicks and a tiny fraction with DQ faults. That's way more than I can say about the top breeder chicks I've hatched. One batch of 6 had 4 with only 4 toes! Most chicks from all batches had really poor toe separation & little (if any) foot feathering on the middle toe. I don't know. Maybe I was expecting too much. I was just so excited when I got some of the eggs to hatch, especially since most of them came from back east. Then, when they dried off & I started checking them over, I'd pick up this beautiful little chick, oooh & aaah over it, then look down & discover only 4 toes, or bad FF, or... It's really very sad.
    On the plus side, I got very nice chicks from a couple of the known breeders & also some very nice chicks from an unknown. In the ad, she had pics of her birds & they were really beautiful, so I took a chance. I'm really glad I did.
    So, does anyone have any suggestions for what I should do with the DQ & mediocre chicks from the top bloodlines? Do I sell them off as pet quality right now or should I raise them up & see if any of them have other qualities that are so great that I should keep them for a few breedings & see what they throw? For instance, if you had a rooster that was gorgeous in every way but only had 4 toes, would you try him with a few different hens to see if his chicks had proper toes? Or will I be bringing a fault into my line that I will regret later? Can anyone recommend any fairly simple genetic books as to what trumps what on Silkies?
    I guess it's time for me to stop whining & start thinking positive. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Country/Sheri
     
  6. mikarod

    mikarod Chillin' With My Peeps

    Sep 28, 2008
    Oklahoma
    I wouldn't even consider a bird with only 4 toes in a breeding pen of silkies. Sorry, just my opinion there. UNLESS you have a female with 6 toes.
     
  7. Black Feather

    Black Feather Chillin' With My Peeps

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    When I started out I had two nice pairs of rosecombs. They were solid average quality bird, not champions, but not culls either. When I crossed them I got every fault in the book! It was horrid. I could not believe suck faults came from half decent parents. The thing was, these parents had recently been out crossed with another line of rosecombs and that tends to bring out issues. To give a short list of the problems: Duck foot, blade spike, inverted spike, white in the face of very young birds, long backs and very sharp junction between the tail and the back.

    I think a lot has to do with how 'stabilized' a strain or bloodline is. If a lot of out crossing has taken place recently then expect for faults to show up in the first two to three generations.

    The funny thing was that even though the starter birds had a lot of faults, they had very strong points as well. I think you should evaluate the parents very carefully to see if they display string and weak points.

    What I did to improve my bloodline was I acquired some birds from one of the bloodlines that my original birds had been out crossed with. This helped 'stabilize' the line and now it breeds truer. Not too many nasty surprises anymore. Mind you, the additional birds I brought in were from a well established show line, so they alone probably would have strengthened any bloodline.

    Ok, as for the percentage of show birds to non-show birds I would say 5-10% are keepers. These are birds that are equal or better than their parents. As one breeders once told me "You won't have what you don't put up with in your bloodlines." Cull Cull Cull.

    Hope this helps [​IMG]
    Urban Coyote
     
  8. Guitartists

    Guitartists Resistance is futile

    Mar 21, 2008
    Michigan
    I would say sell them as pet quality or keep them as pets and not a part of your breeding program. No sense in adding a trait that may pop up in future breedings.

    Wondering though.... did they happen to be a new color variety like Cuckoo??? This could explain a higher percentage of faults.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2008
  9. geareduplyn

    geareduplyn Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Try to find a breeder who has been breeding from the same family for a lot of years. If they have been consistently winning at shows you should get birds no DQ faults. Any outcross is a can of worms.
     
  10. EweSheep

    EweSheep Flock Mistress

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    Quote:I agree with this note!
     

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