Poisoned?

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Godiva, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. Godiva

    Godiva Chillin' With My Peeps

    880
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    May 17, 2007
    Colorado
    I have 14 standard chickens (1 yr old) that I had let out to freerange this afternoon while I seeded and mulched the bantam run. (The bantams are in a tractor elsewhere for sometime) Well, I didn't realise that the grass seed I had bought has been treated with some chemical and just as I read that on the packet I realised that the big birds where chowing down on the seed that had gone through the fencing into the forest side where they were foraging!!! I really don't know how much they all ate and at this point they are showing no signs of any problems but I am really concerned and have no idea what to do. There are no vets in the area that treat birds never mind chickens so I thought I would ask here what you thought.

    THe substance is called 'Mefenoxam' commonly known as Apron XL LS. Do not use for feed, food or oil purposes. Then lower down it says,"RAPID RESULTS TECHNOLOGY
    CAUTION: this seed has been treated with cytokinin (as kinetin) Gibberellic acid and indole-3-butyric acid comonly known as Stimulate Yield Enhancer. Do not use for food, feed or oil purposes.

    WHAT DO I DO? I assume that I will have to discard all eggs for sure, but am I going to lose my flock? WHat is this stuff and what is it going to do to my chickens? I am so sick to my stomach!! I had no idea that they put such horrid stuff on plain old grass seed!!! I should have bought it from the feed store but saw it in Walmart and thought it would work just fine...
     
  2. wombat

    wombat Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jun 23, 2009
    Here's the safety info for APRON XL[​IMG] LS:
    http://pr-rp.pmra-arla.gc.ca/PR_SOL/pr_web.ve1?p_ukid=3896
    http://www.precisionlab.com/itemimages/APRON XL_MSDS.PDF

    The second one says
    Mefenoxam:
    Practically non-toxic to birds, invertebrates and fish.

    I'd suggest calling the number provided in the materials info and asking about egg contamination, though.

    Cytokinins, in general, are a form of plant growth hormone.
    Unfortunately, the materials sheet on Gibberellic acid does not show any information regarding effects to livesotck. Hopefully that is good news ...
    http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Gibberellic_acid-9927177

    The EPA sheet on indole-3-butyric indicates that it is not particularly harmful when ingested by animals and quickly breaks down into harmless chemicals, but makes no mention of poultry.
    http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/biopesticides/ingredients/factsheets/factsheet_046701.htm
    Here's the materials safety data sheet:
    http://www.gtf.se/safenet/pdf/04436501.pdf

    ... it looks like the risk with this one is as an eye irritant or inhalant when it is being applied.

    I'm not an environmental chemist. My best guess is that the main issue might be how long you would want to discard the eggs. I'd suggest calling the number on the materials safety sheet for the Mefenoxam.

    In general, when you run into concerns over chemicals, a good place to start looking is to find the Materials Safety Data Sheet, or MSDS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
  3. Godiva

    Godiva Chillin' With My Peeps

    880
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    May 17, 2007
    Colorado
    Thank you SO much for your response!! I am feeling very hopeful now. I had tried calling the number on the bag but of course it is not office hours now. I had no idea about the MSDS, that is a really good bit of info. Do you just do a search online generally, and by the way, thank you SO MUCH for giving me those links too! We are on deadslow dial up so that has just saved me a bunch of time and sweating at the computer! I will look those up and see what I can find out. I will discard eggs until I know they are clear and try to find out specifics on that too. I was wondering if I had just killed my whole flock in one fell swoop! Freaky few hours, not a good afternoon ... DH had a tricky tree felling operation on the homestead too where the chainsaw got stuck and the tree wanted to fall on our well. We had to do all kinds of scary stuff with teh truck and ropes and whatnot but got it to fall the right spot after all! Just been one of those evenings where a whole bunch of things go wrong one after the other until you want to hide under your bed until the day is done!
     
  4. Godiva

    Godiva Chillin' With My Peeps

    880
    3
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    May 17, 2007
    Colorado
    I called the number on the Mefenoxam sheet and they said that 2 days should be plenty to excrete the stuff, not going to be a problem otherwise at all. Whew!!!! I think I will discard the eggs for a few more days since my hens are not laying much at the moment (some are moulting) and I don't know how long the eggs take to form and move through when they are laying sporadically. All is well it seems! [​IMG]
     
  5. wombat

    wombat Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jun 23, 2009
    I had no idea about the MSDS, that is a really good bit of info. Do you just do a search online generally

    Yes, just put into google

    indole-3-butyric acid and MSDS

    or

    indole-3-butyric acid and Material Safety

    ... for example ...

    and you'll likely get a number of links from nearly every manufacturer who ships that particular chemical.

    Manufacturers are required to create a MSDS for each hazardous chemical they ship and file them with several government agencies. They tie in to those diamond-shaped hazmat signs with numbers that you see on the back of trucks, so that if emergency responders have to deal with a fire or a spill, they can quickly get safety and handling information ... same if there is an accident or spill in an industral setting.

    Your tax dollars at work. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
  6. wombat

    wombat Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jun 23, 2009
    and I don't know how long the eggs take to form and move through

    I believe eggs take about 24-31 hours to move through, and if they are laying less, they just have a longer interval between when the process starts.

    I happen to have this info handy because someone just asked about egg formation last night ... but I still think waiting a couple extra days would be a good idea, even if only for your own peace of mind.

    Egg Formation Timeline
    The average time an ovum spends in each structure as it
    passes down the oviduct (from Avian Physiology; Sturkie, P.D.)
    Infundibulum: _ hour
    Magnum: 2-3 hours
    Isthmus: 1 _ hour
    Uterus: 20-26 hours
    Vagina: just a few minutes

    http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/AS/AS-525-W.pdf
     
  7. Big C

    Big C J & C Farms

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    Dec 15, 2008
    Vernon Texas
    You did not say where you purchased your seed from but,
    Most seed sold at box stores:
    Wal Mart, Lowes, etc...
    are packaged so they can be produced from/shipped/stored for long periods. This means that they have to be treated with chemicals so the germination ratio can meet some set state standard.
    We own a garden center/nursery/farm store. 90% of our seed stock is non treated with chemicals. Exception being:
    Watermelon and a few varieties of corn. These seeds are mandatorily treated with a fungicide as per state law.
    Its possible that you could find a local garden center in your area where you can purchase untreated (hulled) seed. Or go to your local Farmers Coop if your over seeding for fall and winter.
     
  8. Godiva

    Godiva Chillin' With My Peeps

    880
    3
    161
    May 17, 2007
    Colorado
    Thanks again folks. Yes, I actually usually buy grass seed from the farm supply store where it is untreated, but just happened to be in Walmart and decided I didn't want another stop with two fractious kids in tow, so grabbed the seed off the shelf there. Yeah, it does make sense that they would have to treat it for storage purposes... just like the food you buy there has been messed with too and for the same reason. Note to self, buy a bag of grass seed from farm supply soon... [​IMG] all is well and my DH is having fun lobbing the eggs into the forest and seeing them splat against trees etc... [​IMG] Strange how satisfying it can be ?
     

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