Possible egg boung but not sure

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by mustangsaguaro, Jan 6, 2008.

  1. mustangsaguaro

    mustangsaguaro Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I have a new hen that I got last Wed. Last night when putting her to bed I noticed that she had a droppy butt. I felt a mass in there and was able to move it around. Not sure if this is an egg or not. This morning I went to the local feed store that knows about chickens and asked what to do. The guy said to give the hen mineral oil along w/ put it in her feed. Well, the problem is I really don't know if she is eating. She has gotten very thin since me getting her on Wed. The previous person that owned her gave her strictly dog food as her diet (I know bad). Now, that I have her I have her on a proper organic diet, however I don't know if she is eating. I really don't see her pecking at the ground to much. She doesn't seem to be stressed or in any pain. This afternoon I gave her some more mineral oil and gave her some homeopathics to help w/ the blockage. This morning I did use rubber gloves and put some olive oil on the gloves and went in her vent to see if I could get the egg. When going in the vent if there is an egg there is there another orafice that you have to go thru? If so how do you do that? It would be nice if she would pass this on her own. At what point and time do I need to start worrying. Tomorrow I plan on giving her a warm bath (hopefully it won't be raining here) and massaging the area to try to get the egg (if it is in fact an egg) to pass. If feeding mineral oil what is the time frame it would take to pass the egg?

    I tried taking pictures to post here of her bottom but it's kind of difficult when you have a hen that is screaming her head of like she is going to be killed.

    Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Kim
     
  2. Pine Grove

    Pine Grove Chillin' With My Peeps

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    with the feeding of the dog food Im thinking she probably has ascites, commonly called Water Belly
     
  3. mustangsaguaro

    mustangsaguaro Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:I have 2 other birds from the same guy one is a barred rock and the other is either a phoenix or Std. OE and neither of these birds have it. What is ascites, and can it be cured? The fact that I have them on a proper diet will this clear up or is there something I need to do?

    Thanks
     
  4. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    ascotes is a symptom that occurs with many things (see link below) incl eggbound and reproductive problems...
    Do you know how old this bird is?
    I fear with the diet you described there may be a few things going on ...does it appear she is straining or her tail bobing? have you tried placing her in a warm bath ? after you can keep her in a warm area occasionally placing her on a warm steamy towel in the morning and gently massaging if you feel she may be eggbound (on that diet there might be a softshelled egg in there...) I doubt giving her mineral oil is going to help. "examining" her internally will also not help matters, though you can insrt a bit of KY gel (a lubricant) around her vent/cloaca.
    A vet would do an xray and if eggbound was suspected would give calcium gluconate... can you get to a vet? In a pinch you can give a crushed up tum. You must ensure the bird drinks sufficiently and eats... mix some cooked in water oatmeal with her feed (will help in digestion and uptake of calcium) ... if you have any poultry vitamins mix that with her feed too and add a few drops of applecider vinegar to her waterer (this will also help in uptake of calcium) however if she is panting and you suspect she has not been drinking sufficiently do not add the applecider vinegar to the waterer but add electrlytes/vit instead (you will find this at your feedstore>Durvet is one brand) Here is the info on Ascites:
    http://www.vetcareindia.com/p_bul_ascites.htm
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  5. pollysmum

    pollysmum Out Of The Brooder

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    I think what you will find is that the bird is starving to death, when you were told that they had only been eating dog food, you should have taken some and then SLOWLY changed over the feed to chicken feed

    This bird has no idea what you have put out for it to eat and is not eating anything at all... if you can get it to eat some of that dog food stuff that the guy was feeding then do it ... get something into the birds system now or it will starve to death

    Then when you have it eating again SLOWLY CHANGE over the feed ... do it over a month.. removing some of the feed it is used to eating with the new feed... 1/4 at a time is good .. but before you add more of the new stuff make sure the bird is eating it .. if its not then just leave it at the rate you currently have it at until the bird does become accustomed to eating the new feed

    You may have to force feed this bird now to get it back on track
     
  6. mustangsaguaro

    mustangsaguaro Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Do you know how old this bird is?

    She is about a year to year and a half


    ...does it appear she is straining or her tail bobing?

    She doesnt appear to be strainging to go to the bathroom or bobbing her tail. If you mean by squatting and trying to go and nothing comes out, no am not seeing this

    have you tried placing her in a warm bath ?

    Am planning on doing this today.


    A vet would do an xray and if eggbound was suspected would give calcium gluconate... can you get to a vet?

    What is calcium gluconate used for? Is it a laxative? Does the vet give it via a shot or internally. I really don't want to take her to a vet as my finances are really tight and a vet will charge me an arm and a leg. Can I get calcium gluconate over the counter? I am assuming giving a crushed up tums will help w/ the uptake of calcium is this correct?
    a pinch you can give a crushed up tum.

    if you have any poultry vitamins mix that with her feed too and add a few drops of applecider vinegar to her waterer (this will also help in uptake of calcium) however if she is panting and you suspect she has not been drinking sufficiently do not add the applecider vinegar to the waterer but add electrlytes/vit instead (you will find this at your feedstore>Durvet is one brand

    I don't have any vitamin mix for poultry. I do have some ACV. Does the ACV need to be organic w/ the mother in it or can it be grocery store brand? I have grocery store brand right now at the house, but if need to get organic stuff can go out and get some today. No evidence of her panting. Besides the droppy butt she doesn't seem to be in any distress. There is a local feed store here where I live that one of the employees there is very knowledgeable w/ chickens. I was thinking about putting her in a carrier and take her down there this morning for him to take a look and see what he might think it is.

    I am thinking I might have to go back to feeding her dog food until she will start eating what I feed. Why anyone would give their chickens dog food as a main staple of their diet is beyond me. I guess pure stupidity.

    Thanks for the info and help and will keep you updated as to how things are going.​
     
  7. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    I am assuming giving a crushed up tums will help w/ the uptake of calcium is this correct?

    Yes (this was a tip posted by a vet for eggbound emergencies)
    What is calcium gluconate used for? Is it a laxative? Does the vet give it via a shot or internally. I really don't want to take her to a vet as my finances are really tight and a vet will charge me an arm and a leg. Can I get calcium gluconate over the counter?

    Yes you can...here is a link for it:
    http://www.ronsvetsupply.com/calgluc500ml.html
    (this is the injectible form which the vets use... it is very important in eggbinding and standard for it to be administered , sometimes along with a med which will induce "contractions" >however since eggbinding might not be the issue here then I suggest you pass on this.
    I don't have any vitamin mix for poultry. I do have some ACV. Does the ACV need to be organic w/ the mother in it or can it be grocery store brand? I have grocery store brand right now at the house, but if need to get organic stuff can go out and get some today

    Some would disagree but IMHO it really makes no difference... I just get the natural applecider vinegar (but without the "mother") ...
    No evidence of her panting. Besides the droppy butt she doesn't seem to be in any distress.

    ... If your bird was eggbound I would think she would be in servere distress (or perhaps it broke inside and you happened to miss it?) Could be she has ascites secondary to another condition (swollen organ or such perhaps from the inadequate diet?)
    I urge you to mix as little as possible (just enough to encourage her to eat) dogfood into the feed if that is what you are planning to do to get her to eat. I feel the reason she may have stopped eating may lie not only with the abrubt change in diet, but also because she is sick. A sick bird will often stop eating and drinking.
    I urge you to get a good general poultry supplement...look at your feed store for one or order the one I recommend which is Avia Charge 2000 (you can purchase online from McMueeay or Strombergs)... it is a complete supplement also suitable for organic certified.
    Offer your bird some live culture yogurt (free choice) ... the one with the active bifidus culture in it (not the flavored/desert type). This is VERY good for her.

    Prolonged use of dogfood as the sole source of feed can cause severe nutritional imbalance , deficiencies, and even toxicities. Dogfood is formulated for dogs not birds (I know I am stating the obvious, but take in example salt for instance...a dog will need much more than a bird and birds are vERY sensitive to excess salt >btw salt poisoning can also cause ascites which may be what you birds swollen abdomen is)
    Correcting the diet and getting her the proper nutrition is in my opinion of utmost importance here.​
     
  8. mustangsaguaro

    mustangsaguaro Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Update. I took my chicken down to the feed store guy who is very knowledgable this morning. He said she is not egg bound. That she has a tumor. What he told me is b/c she is a RIR and since they are known to lay lots of eggs that they can develop tumors, and that's what she has. He said he's got a chicken like this at home too. I have a friend that does hair analysis who has done birds in the past (a parrot) so she is going to let me know what homeopathics to give this bird based on what comes up in the root of the feather. We are going to try to work on getting the tumor to shrink in size. I am aware that this will take months but I am willing to give it a try. I will get the other things you suggested just to have on hand in case any of my other birds get sick or just for future to have on hand.
     
  9. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    good luck with the homeopathics (I assume they are speaking about nosodes for use in Mareks/LL? I have no info whatsoever on the efficacy of that but I wish you well in your efforts.
    It may also be that your bird is an internal/false layer (if the abdomen is hard) which is very common unfortunately...see this article (with photos) in which case the homeopathic treatment would of no use whatsoever. Here is the article (a condensed thread from a BYC member):
    http://www.browneggblueegg.com/Article/PennysSurgery/PennysSurgery.html

    ...as long as the masses of eggyolks do not go septic they can live with this for some time however they will have several health problems which cannot really be resolved as the only "cure" for this condition (internal/false layer) is the surgery you see in this article.
     
  10. mustangsaguaro

    mustangsaguaro Chillin' With My Peeps

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    good luck with the homeopathics (I assume they are speaking about nosodes for use in Mareks/LL? I have no info whatsoever on the efficacy of that but I wish you well in your efforts.

    Not necessarily nosodes. My friend who has done hair analysis and homeopathy for over 30yrs. has made up her own remedies (she uses a very reputable company that makes them), but she also uses the regular homeopathics (i.e Arnica, Belladonna, etc) if the human or animal calls for those too.

    It may also be that your bird is an internal/false layer (if the abdomen is hard) which is very common unfortunately

    Abdomen is not hard. So hoping she is not an internal/false layer. Will keep an eye to make sure it doesn't get like that and that the mass doesn't get any larger. Since this is a new bird I am not to attached to her yet. So if she needs to be put down I will do that. To me a hen that can't lay eggs is of no use to me. I know that sounds cruel/mean but it's the truth. Am hoping by this spring she will start laying eggs, but we will see.


    Thanks for all the info an links. It was rather interesting to read and see the pics to see what came out of that chicken.​
     

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