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pullet with profuse tearing one eye-UPDATE post 4; 2nd pullet affected

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by verlaj, Nov 4, 2009.

  1. verlaj

    verlaj Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jan 31, 2009
    Micanopy, Florida
    Came home this evening and noticed one Speckled Sussex pullet (6 mos) roosting by herself - odd. Checked her over and she seemed okay. Maybe squinting, but I was holding a flashlight on her to see.

    Just went out to check on her, and she is still by herself and now the right eye has a lot of swelling around it and profuse tearing from that eye. Clear, watery profuse tearing. Breathing fine, no nasal discharge. Cornea looks clear.

    Hoping this is an injury or insect bite, not infectious disease. Will bring her inside and put antibiotic ointment in the eye.

    Question: Could infectious coryza (or any other infectious disease) start this way? Haven't noticed anything wrong with any of the others yet. If coryza could start this way, should I vaccinate the flock?

    (flock of 42; no recent additions to flock; vax for Marek's but nothing else; housed in open air coop at night, large outdoor pen and/or free range during day, no adverse weather lately; fed layer crumbles/oyster shell/occasional handful of scratch grains and BOSS)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2009
  2. ChickenWisperer

    ChickenWisperer Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jun 30, 2008
    KY
    Is there anything in that eye? Has the eye been damaged? Is it so swollen you cant see the eye?


    I dont know of any infectious disease/virus/etc that starts this way. Has she shown any more abnormal behaivor?


    Im sorry I can't help any more than that.
     
  3. verlaj

    verlaj Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I can't see a foreign body or injury to the eye. The lids are swollen and she is keeping it partially shut for the most part, sometimes entirely shut. The other eye looks normal. I put triple antibiotic ophthalmic ointment in the teary eye and left her in a cozy area with food, water, and a box to sleep in.

    I have her in the house now - no other signs as yet. Worried it could be coryza - some internet sites mention "lacrimation" which she definitely was doing big time, but only from that eye.

    Just checked on her - she was standing, seems comfortable, holding the eye open a little more than before - no other signs.

    Plan on spraying the coop with Oxine in the morning and disinfecting the waterers/feeders. Anything else pending advice here and her status as well as other birds in the a.m.
     
  4. verlaj

    verlaj Chillin' With My Peeps

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    This morning I discovered one more pullet (EE) with one swollen eye. She was acting a little pokey and had one eye swollen shut and crusty. Brought her in, cleaned the eye. The discharge is clear, but there are small swellings along the edge of the lids, and that side of her face is swollen. Medicated the eye with triple antibiotic ophthalmic ointment. No respiratory signs (yet) but she is acting pokey. She did eat some scratch however, but not with the normal enthusiasm of a chicken.

    The SS I first posted about has less tearing in the eye today, but there is a dark red mark above the eye and swelling along a portion of the lids on that eye. She doesn't have great appetite, but she did eat a little.

    Any thoughts? Infectious coryza? Fowl pox? Seems unlikely that it is an insect bites since now it is 2 birds with nearly the same signs and they are acting pokey.

    What to do with the remainder of the flock other than disinfect waterers and so on?
     
  5. Airilith

    Airilith Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Eastern Shore, VA
    Are either of them scratching their eyes like they itch alot?
     
  6. verlaj

    verlaj Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Not really. Mostly they just sit or stand quietly in the pen I made for them in the den.
     
  7. ChickenWisperer

    ChickenWisperer Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jun 30, 2008
    KY
    I really have no clue. You've done everything I would've suggested. Go ahead and disinfect the coop if you want, but im not sure how much good it would do if the whole flock or part is infected.

    You might try pm'ing a moderator and see if they can help. I hope that you find some answers, and your birds get better soon.
     
  8. threehorses

    threehorses Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Houston
    Are any of the wattles swollen? Or is it the spaces between the eyes and nose, and the eye areas?

    Are the nodules at all like scabs? I wouldn't vaccinate for pox at the moment as you might have asymptomatic birds who, if being vaccinated with pox while actively fighting it, will be overcome.

    Never vaccinate for ANY illness while the illness might be active; that goes for any disease. Wait til it's done and then vaccinate the ones that were asymptomatic.

    IF wattles are swollen, I'd look seriously at pasteurella. Otherwise, several respiratory illnesses include swelling of the face as the general sinuses are inflammed, filling with the products of immune response.

    HOwever, nodules. This is a key symptom. First thing I would want to do any time you see a nodule is open up the mouths of the birds and see if there are corresponding whitish or yellowisn nodules or cheesy patches in the mouth/throat.

    If patches, along with external nodules, I'd suspect diphtheria (wet pox). If nodules, I'd at the least suspect hypovitaminosis A (A deficiency) with a corresponding primary or secondary respiratory infection/symptoms.

    I would treat ALL birds immediately with vitamin A, and not the water packets. Water packets aren't very effective at all for the oil vitamins (A, D, E, K) and A and E are very important in this type of illness, A being particularly important. You can try treating the flock with the water packet and just watch them carefully, and the two ones inside with polyvisol (4 drops daily in the beak - one week). IF you want to flock treat, then you can either get liquid cod liver oil or fortified wheat germ oil (horse section, feedstores) and spray with a mister-type sprayer, handheld garden sprayer or smaller cosmetic sprayer (kept in a dark place or light proof). You will spray that on the top of the new feed twice weekly - no more vitamins than that, no more often than that. DO it first thing in the morning, and make sure to take up their food the night before so that they're eager to eat the top layer quickly before the light gets to it.

    Of course, all birds should be eating a good completely fortified ration, age appropriate. That means a crumble or pellet as 95% of their diet. Check your feed - make sure it's within a month old, kept in a dry, light-proof, moisture proof, container - n ot a bag. Vitamin A easily degrades from dry feeds as oil vitamins really need oils/fats for best absorption/storage.

    If it's not a vitamin A deficiency, the vitamin A supplementation temporarily and in these small amounts will help with mucous membranes (the eyes' edges, the respiratory system, etc) and their healing, the E will help with inflammation issues and acts as an anti-oxidant against products of the pathogens (viral, bacterial, whatever they are).

    I would be prepared for flock treatment with antibiotics. Tylan soluable seems the best for flock applications. The mycins and cyclines aren't advisably strong any more. A flock that large, you want to hit this hard and with a good antibiotic that covers a lot of the diseases.

    Get it to have on hand to have at your disposal.

    In the mean time, VetRx used as a swab for the nares, roof of inside of beak, etc will help the birds with swelling to breath past their inflammation, which might be partially aleviated by the VetRx.

    In the mean time, yes - quarantine. Remember to do those two birds last in the day after the main flock. Use different shoes and a covering shirt when you do them - leave them with the sick birds. I find that antibacterial hand gel used after handling the sick birds' utensiles, etc, helps prevent me from spreading germs on the doorknobs, etc, when I leave their area.

    Make sure they drink! If that means adding a little liquidized honey to the water, do so. (I mix honey in an equal amount of nearly boiling water - stir til cool and liquid, add that to my waterer). Also yogurt wouldn't hurt the sick birds or the well in case they have any sinus drainage - prevents secondary bacterial/fungal enteritis. You can still use yogurt if you use the Tylan soluble.

    I hope this helps.

    In the mean time, if you could please tell me their exact diet, where they live (barn run, free range, etc) and what their bedding is, any recent changes, etc?

    Thank you!
     
  9. verlaj

    verlaj Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The two in the house look a little better. Ate a little - but not normal appetite. They are perky and have no additional signs, such as respiratory signs, as yet.

    No swelling of any areas other than around the right eye on both birds.

    No additional affected birds in the flock so far. I did notice a couple of red flecks on the face/comb of another SS pullet this evening. Don't know if that is related or not. That pullet had nothing wrong otherwise.

    The flock is housed in an open air coop with sand floor. They are cooped at night, but out in a large pen and free range during the day. Our weather has been perfect - warm days, cool nights, no rain.

    Fed high quality, always fresh, Blue Seal layer crumbles with free choice oyster shell and occasional handful of scratch grains and BOSS as treats. No recent changes of anything; no new birds.

    I think it is unlikely they have a vitamin deficiency due to the quality of the commercial diet and their access to fresh forage every day. Also, all of my young birds are in excellent condition - beautiful lustrous feathering, red, waxy combs and wattles, good weight, strong egg shells in the ones that are laying. Several of the older ones are molting.

    I spoke to a poultry veterinarian on the phone today. His thoughts were 1) very early stage of fowl pox; 2) very early stage of infectious coryza. His advice was to vaccinate the remainder of the flock for fowl pox because fowl pox slowly spreads through the flock and vaccination could help prevent disease in birds that are not showing signs yet. Because of the possibility that it might be infectious coryza, I thought I would wait another day to vaccinate, because vaccinating for one disease while another is incubating might exacerbate the disease. I do have fowl pox vaccine on hand; wish now I had called him earlier to get advice on vaccinations for this area, and they would have been vaccinated for fowl pox weeks ago.

    I'm going to photograph the birds for the veterinarian and see if that helps clarify things. I will post photos when I get some.

    I also thought I would wait to see what develops before starting antibiotics. If they are not necessary, I would hate to be throwing away all the eggs for a couple of weeks. I don't have Tylan on hand - wish I had ordered it today when I ordered more OxineAH.

    The "nodules" are small and right along the eyelids of the one bird. No scabs. I am continuing the ophthalmic ointment, because if nothing else, it prevents the lids from sticking together.

    Thanks for the suggestions - Please let me know if you think of anything else. I will keep you posted.
     
  10. threehorses

    threehorses Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Houston
    I'm thinking pox, too - just very early. Choryza is also possible - sniff for evidence of it (thought the smell isn't always there). Any excessive slobber?

    Are the eyelids sticking together actually? Do you think the nodules are pus? Did you check the roof of the mouth to rule out wet pox?

    If it's just the two birds, and the vet recommends it, then yes - i've vaccinate and maybe they'll get the dry version, the small signs of it that normally occur with vaccination rather than full blown cases. In the uneffected birds.

    I'd still give the additional vitamins to counteract the stress and to heal the mucuous membranes, particularly since that's where the nodules are - in the mucous membrane section of the eyelid, or am I reading that wrong?

    And of course I definitely wouldn't use antibiotics yet but would have them handy. You know how sometimes at 10 p.m. on a Saturday night you'll realize it's time to medicate - or at least that's what happens to me. [​IMG]

    Yeah, stocking up on things I hope to not use is one things I've learned to do the last few years. I do it when the budget is a little more free, just one item a month or so. that way I don't end up blowing the whole budget all at once (unless I order online...then I save up and try to get everything shipped at once).

    Next year, I'm definitely vaccinating for pox though I've managed to not do so for decades. But this year it hit our turkeys (thankfully all of them got it, so I won't have it next year) and the combs were effected this year. Plus I've just seen a few too many cases of pox near the eyes on the boards (and one bird that nearly had it this year) and I just don't want to risk it here. I'm in the Gulf South, so pox is a given annually here just off of the bay.

    Please do keep us updated. I'm really interested in how this progresses.
     

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