Pullorum or Cocci??

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Ukie Chicks, Dec 16, 2009.

  1. Ukie Chicks

    Ukie Chicks New Egg

    9
    0
    7
    Oct 26, 2009
    Pasa-git-down-dena, Texas
    I bought 10 chicks last week and 2 days after I bought them one died. I figured it was due to stress. When I looked at them again, another one looked sick, too- so I knew it wasn't stress. I called the guy I bought them from (who was certified) and described symptoms and he said it was most likely cocci. I bought corrid and have been giving them that for 2 days. Since then, the one that was sickly has died and another afterwards.

    But, now I'm not so sure it's cocci. The chicks that act sick (which, of course are separated) are sleepy, huddle together, uninterested in what the others are doing and are not hungry or thirsty. They are smaller and lighter than the others as a result.

    One has a pasted rear (and actually acts sick), poops watery/bubbly liquid that is mostly clear with some brown/red. The other that has a sortof pasty rear does not act sick and poops normal. On both of these chicks they have white/greenish poo stuck to their rears- which I attempted to wipe off- but is very hard and seems to have killed the feathers around the vent.

    Their breathing seems to be a bit heavy when sleeping and they all seem a bit bluish- I think I have the temp too high in the brooder and have adjusted since noticing this behavior. One bird shakes her head, but I am unsure if that's cocci or just chick behavior, she poops a liquid red/yellow/brown.

    I am calling the local vet as soon as I get home from work- but thought I'd get some input from you guys too.
    Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
     
  2. bargain

    bargain Love God, Hubby & farm Premium Member

    8,372
    64
    326
    Apr 13, 2008
    Bowdon, GA
    http://www.chat.allotment.org.uk/index.php?topic=17568.0

    Check
    out this site and see which your babies pooh looked like. Does your state check for pullorum? If yes and the seller was certified, these should not have that.

    If you treat for cocci, you cannot give them medicated feed at the same time.

    It may be that the chickens did not absorb their yolks well during the birthing process.

    I would take one of the diseased to your state lab and find out what's going on.

    Hope someothers will see this and respond.....
     
  3. Ukie Chicks

    Ukie Chicks New Egg

    9
    0
    7
    Oct 26, 2009
    Pasa-git-down-dena, Texas
    He says he has a TVMDL Certificate. I'm not sure what exactly that covers- I had assumed it covered everything. I guess I need to do more research on that...

    I will change my feed asap. thanks for the tip.

    I looked at the pics, but was unable to cut/copy and paste them. One looked like the watery poo- I think they were too hot at the time. I have since corrected. The sick ones look like the watery orange colored poo in the grass above the worm infected ones-but just more red/brown. I had looked at the poo link before posting my add to get help, but didn't find an exact poo match.

    Thanks for the help- and please respond if you can add more info!
     
  4. bargain

    bargain Love God, Hubby & farm Premium Member

    8,372
    64
    326
    Apr 13, 2008
    Bowdon, GA
    http://tvmdl.tamu.edu/

    explains
    the certificate. I'm not from Texas but I would call the Texas Department of Agriculture and see if this is the agency that does NPIP. It really just looks like a diagnostic lab....so unless he had those chicks or their parents checked. I'm not sure what it means either.

    See if you can find a State run poulry lab for some help or diagnosis on your babies please.

    Can someone else add some thoughts?

    Thanks and have a blessed day.
     
  5. saladin

    saladin Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,831
    108
    221
    Mar 30, 2009
    the South
    Quote:I'll be honest I don't understand what you are saying at all. It sounds exactly like stress to me. Pasty: they got to cold: maybe a touch of cocci too. I'm NPIP so have never dealt with pullorum and our state has been clean for years now.

    saladin
     
  6. PunkinPeep

    PunkinPeep Chillin' With My Peeps

    3,642
    19
    229
    Mar 31, 2009
    SouthEast Texas
    Ukie, i hope you're getting some answers from your vet, but since vets sometimes aren't all that helpful with chickens....

    How old are your chicks? The answer to this makes a big difference.

    You said they are in a brooder, so i assume they are pretty young. And you mentioned the heat. Be sure your chicks can get out of the heat, meaning, have your lamp in one corner or something so they have lots of places to go where there's no heat on them.

    The liquidy poo could indicate that they're hot. But the pasty butt is pretty common when they're really little, and you have to watch it so that the poo doesn't block their vents. If that happens, they die because they can't "process" properly.

    The symptoms you described sound very cocci-ish, but if they're that young - like under 3 weeks, i seriously doubt cocci is the problem - especially if they're still in the brooder.

    When they're sleeping, do they sleep under the light or as far away from the light as they can get?

    If you can provide more information about their set-up, pictures, if that's possible, and tell us their age, we could probably do a better job of getting to the bottom of things for you.

    oh yeah......welcome to BYC! [​IMG]
     
  7. PunkinPeep

    PunkinPeep Chillin' With My Peeps

    3,642
    19
    229
    Mar 31, 2009
    SouthEast Texas
    Just for posterity and everybody's knowledge, i just got off the phone with a guy from TVMDL who explained their program. I haven't been able to get this info in Texas before now, so i'm kind of excited.

    But as you may have assumed, TVMDL certification is the state's annual certification that adult birds in that operation are free of pullorum, typhoid, and salmonella.
     
  8. Ukie Chicks

    Ukie Chicks New Egg

    9
    0
    7
    Oct 26, 2009
    Pasa-git-down-dena, Texas
    They are roughly 2 weeks of age or under, mix breeds. It's hit and miss under the light- most of the time, they are just beyond the main circle of light. I have a plastic, 2' x 2' tub, with a 150 w light during the day and 250 at night- they are inside in my kitchen. The light is on one end of the tub- above the container at a 45 degree angle. I have a gauge in there and it stays anywhere in between 80-90. Depending on the bulb or time of day. At night we turn off the heat so I use the larger bulb. During the day (my husband is at home) the heat is on, so I use the 150 w. The light in not in the brooder, but above it.

    I understand that once they recover they will be carriers- but that still means I can eat the eggs (once recovered), right?? This is something that most chickens have, right?? I don't plan on breeding them.
     
  9. PunkinPeep

    PunkinPeep Chillin' With My Peeps

    3,642
    19
    229
    Mar 31, 2009
    SouthEast Texas
    I understand that once they recover they will be carriers- but that still means I can eat the eggs (once recovered), right?? This is something that most chickens have, right?? I don't plan on breeding them.

    Cocci isn't exactly a disease. Coccidiosis is the when the chick's body is overwhelmed by the organisms that live in the soil multiplying inside their intestines. After they survive an infestation like this, they retain a strong resistance to the organisms. I would venture to say that ALL chickens carry some small level of cocci organisms - at least from time to time - if they live on or near dirt at all. And no, it does not effect whether you eat their eggs, and it's not the kind of thing that affects hatching eggs either.

    That said, i doubt very strongly that your chicks at this age have coccidiosis - it simply doesn't make sense with the life cycle of the cocci organisms, etc.

    If i were you, i would simply keep a very close eye on those pasty rears and search for pasty butt in the emergency section to get good advice for how to help them clear that up. You need to make sure they're at least drinking water, even if you have to hand feed them.

    I didn't ask before: they should be eating just chick start/crumble. Are they eating anything else?

    For the ones not wanting to eat, i would try to feed them some boiled egg yolk. It has a lot of nutrition in it that will help their bodies get well.​
     
  10. Ukie Chicks

    Ukie Chicks New Egg

    9
    0
    7
    Oct 26, 2009
    Pasa-git-down-dena, Texas
    They have been eating medicated chick starter- then when I saw the post about not using medicated feed with Corid- I gave them a lower protein mix unmedicated.

    They just appear sleepy and tired, eyes are often closed- I don't know if I'd say they were swollen, but half closed at times. They aren't sneezing or anything. One bird tends to open and close her mouth weird- not a gasp, but a deep swallow motion.

    I read the recent posts by Dlolato and am now wondering if it's Coryza....

    Crap. I don't know what to think anymore. I'll see if I can take some pictures tonight and add them.
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by