Pygmy Goat Kid questions: PLEASE HELP!

Earthologie

In the Brooder
8 Years
Mar 21, 2011
84
3
48
Continental
I bought older pygmy goats about two years ago, a male and a female, the male is a wether. Therefore, the male is not able to sire offspring, and we have never owned kids before.

Recently, we bought two pygmy goat kids (On Sunday, and it is now Friday). One is older and has already been disbudded. The other is younger and still needs to have this procedure done. I will be contacting our vet tomorrow.

The seller stated that both of these goats were weaned. I personally think he doesn't know what he is talking about. The older goat is definitely weaned, but I worry about the younger one.

The morning after we brought the goats home, I called the seller to ask and make sure the youngest kid had been weaned. He stated that it SHOULD eat food for us. Blah, blah, blah, in other words: this little goat was NOT already weaned. It was abundantly clear that it wasn't weaned. I was not happy. The seller did not want me to return the goat to give it more time with its mother. He said it would be fine. Maybe he is right? That is what I am trying to find out.

I think this little goat is too young to be away from its mother. I hope someone here will help me to determine if it is or not. I read that a kid should be three months old when it is weaned, and I *HIGHLY* doubt this little goat is anywhere near that age. I wish I had realized this when we were out at the farm. Since we have never owned Pygmy Goat kids before, I took the farmers word for it.

I have read that goats "eat" food, but their bodies do not really process it until their stomachs have had time to develop properly, and that is why they need their mothers milk.

I could not get the seller, who was friendly when we were at his farm, to state on the phone how old the little kid is.

Her horns have not even completely broke her skin on her head yet.

***How old are pygmy goat kids when their horns come in?***

After getting off of the phone with the seller Monday morning, I went to TSC and bought a pack of 3 nipples that fit on pop bottles. They are see through, but at the same time, they are kind of white in color. I cut open two of them very poorly on accident and they drain too fast. Fearful, I was hesitant with a needle on the 3rd, and last one. This one drains to slowly in my opinion, but I am afraid to make it bigger and waste it as well.

The goat is still very hesitant to drink in this manner: once her mouth is pried open with my fingers though, she does drink what she can get from the nipple, but she goes at it from the side of her mouth. I can see milk in her mouth, but it still doesn't seem like enough is coming out, even if I squeeze the bottle.

We do see her eating fresh greens (grass/weeds) in the pasture, and rarely taking a drink of water. My concern is: are her stomachs developed enough that she is getting enough nutrition this way?

So far she will not eat GRASS hay. She will not eat the mini alphalpha cubes I bought her (I soak them in water).

So, my last question is:

Is she old enough to not need bottle feeding at this point? I was thinking of buying a different style of nipple that already has the cuts in the top, but don't want to buy one if she doesn't need it.

Here is a picture of the TOP of her head. I will try to post more photos of her full body tomorrow. This is the only picture I have at this point:




We brought her in the house to sleep for the night because it is VERY cold and rainy out. The other goats did not go into their house as normal, for some odd "GOAT REASON" they decided to stand out in the rain even after dark. This little goat was standing somewhat close to them, under a bench we sit on in their pasture. She wasn't wet, but was shivering. Typically, our old female goat LOVES this little baby and stays right near her (sad she never had any of her own? ) She laid down on my blanket and we covered her up and she fell right asleep.
 
Without knowing how old the kid is, it is hard to give advice but I will try. What sort of milk are you feeding? I use a mixture of three quarts of whole milk to one quart of cream when I don't have goats milk. You can use a regular baby nipple, I generally use medium flow and then switch to fast flow. Try feeding baby leaves from trees, a goat favorite. I like to give young goats medicated pellets for the first few months. It takes babies a while to get the hang of a bottle . Try to keep it vertical once in the mouth, and cover the eyes with your hand so it simulates being under mama. Start with a few ounces every few hours, and then gradually increase volume and decrease frequency. A bottle fed baby is the best pet. Good luck.
 
Wow, if her horn buds have not broken the skin, then she is young. Like, under two weeks old young! Unless she is polled, but that isn't possible if you can feel the buds under her skin.



This is the best type of nipple for goat kids, especially small ones like pygmies or Nigerian dwarves. Just snip the tip off, usually provides a perfect flow. I used plain whole cows milk for my goat kids, nothing mixed in. I sure hope that little one got colostrum, but it is too late now to provide it. And yes, she needs milk right now. Keep trying the bottle, even if you get just an ounce in her at a time.

Just to be safe, I'd suggest you absolutely have on hand the C&D antitoxin. This is not the vaccine! She will need the vaccine. But I think she is definitely at risk, since I don't think she has the residual protection from her mother.

Edit: Also, BackyardHerds, it would be a good idea to join! You'll find a lot more people with a lot of goat experience!
 
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Wow, if her horn buds have not broken the skin, then she is young. Like, under two weeks old young! Unless she is polled, but that isn't possible if you can feel the buds under her skin.



This is the best type of nipple for goat kids, especially small ones like pygmies or Nigerian dwarves. Just snip the tip off, usually provides a perfect flow. I used plain whole cows milk for my goat kids, nothing mixed in. I sure hope that little one got colostrum, but it is too late now to provide it. And yes, she needs milk right now. Keep trying the bottle, even if you get just an ounce in her at a time.

Just to be safe, I'd suggest you absolutely have on hand the C&D antitoxin. This is not the vaccine! She will need the vaccine. But I think she is definitely at risk, since I don't think she has the residual protection from her mother.

Edit: Also, BackyardHerds, it would be a good idea to join! You'll find a lot more people with a lot of goat experience!
Actually horn buds aren't a good indicator, even naturally polled goats have knobby knots on their head where horns would have been (at least my girl does and always has) Now if you see tiny little shiny horns peaking through then yes, I believe that would indicate a very young goat.

Sorry I don't have much to add beyond that. Mine were young when I got them but completely weaned so I don't have much advise on the bottle feeding side of things
hmm.png
A good picture of her standing beside the others might help us determine her age a little better though
smile.png
 
Does she have swirly hair over her horn buds? It is hard to tell in the picture because she is white. If the hair is straight, she is polled, if it is swirly, she is not polled and no more that 3 weeks old. A goat who has not been disbudded would have horns by the time they are 3 weeks I think. I have always disbudded mine. if the buds are still really small with swirly hair then she is really young. You will need to bottle feed her for at least 2 months. When did you look at her for the first time? She will drink out of a bottle with practice. Even goats who have never nursed their mother are hard to teach.
 
I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here, but I think CD&T antitoxin is a waste of money. A tetanus antitoxin may be a good choice if there have been confirmed tetanus related deaths on the property, or if an unvaccinated goat is about to be castrated or has been injured. It has been proven time and time again that Enterotoxemia antitoxins are rarely effective in sick animals and do not offer long term protection against the disease. As colostridial diseases can crop up any time, I think long-term protection is a safer bet. If you are going to vaccinate, I would give her a shot of the CD&T vaccine at a month old, then booster it two weeks later to give her long term protection from both diseases. After her first two doses she will need a yearly booster to keep her immunity.
 
In observing several things with our goats and our neighbor's 9 baby goats born this spring (one of which we bought) I learned a few things.

Of her 9 goats, 6 were polled. They all had bumps on their heads, but the ones getting horns felt like a little hard pimple under the skin after a week. The latest one to get horns was a doeling and she got them between 3-4 weeks. The polled goats have more rounded lumps. Some of the polled ones had swirls, but some didn't, so that's at least a clue.

If you want her disbudded you can as long as the horns haven't more than barely poked through- though before that is better. Unless you have a rare vet that sees lots of goats you're much better off finding a dairy goat breeder and paying them to do it. (Many non-dairy goat breeders don't disbud, but if they do they would be a good option too.)
 
How's your baby doing, Earthology? The same thing happened to us. We bought four pygmy goats from a very irreputable breeder although we didn't know that at the time. The smallest little guy was barely 4 weeks old but the breeder told us he was weaned. He wasn't. We returned him to nurse another two weeks. Then he and his brother came down with coccidia and we lost his brother. Our vet was great and we managed to pull the other little guy out of the woods but it was a month of worry and shots and trips to the vet. We then bought a little nigerian dwarf from a very good breeder and there was night and day difference. We've finally got everyone healthy but it was a rough road. My advice would be to get him to a vet ASAP and let him or her find out what he needs. There is hope but a goat can go down very fast so you have to be proactive. I'm sending you all my good thoughts.
 
UPDATE:

Perhaps I can make a quick video tomorrow morn to show the little horn bumps. Yes, there are bumps there and they do feel like hard pimples. She is not polled.

Age wise though, they are very tiny. I doubt they have broke the skin yet.

Since it is now later than when I first wrote this post, I will check in the morning to see if the hair is smooth or wavy around the horn area.

She is eating grass, weeds, timothy hay. She still does not want to eat alfalfa. She still won't try sweet feed yet either. I try to give her just about any mixture possible everyday just to keep food in her. What she is willing to eat: she can have.

Bottle feeding is still a MISERABLE experience. As soon as she starts, she quits. I WILL TRY A MEDIUM FLOW REGULAR BABY BOTTLE TOMORROW!

I have been putting nutri-drench in her water. She does drink it, but seemingly she does not drink it much.

As for milk, we are giving WHOLE cow's milk, warmed up.



*********SCARY********

1) She now has a cold in her eyes. She gets nasty eye boogers that I have been cleaning off. Please note that TODAY the eyes did NOT seem as bad as YESTERDAY.

2) I noticed TODAY, however, that she has diarreah. Apparently it doesn't seem too bad though, because there are not runs everywhere? Her bedding is dry. The only place I noticed any diarreah was on her behind. The diarrhea that is sticking to her behind is DARK BROWN TO BLACK in color.

I am VERY FRUSTRATED! This has been a HORRIBLE experience overall. She is such a sweet little girl. She has become quite tame towards us, and never wants us to leave her side. This makes it extremely hard to get anything done around here! She prefers us even to the other young goat!

3) Because of these two symptoms she is now ISOLATED from all other animals that I own. I put her in my brand-new- bird aviary. My brother and I just built it. I have never kept any of my birds in there or other animals in there.

I am so angry! I would like to bring her into my home, but feel like I CAN'T since she is sick! I have two Shih Tzu puppies in the house that are about 9 weeks old and I don't want to risk getting them sick as well.


NEW QUESTIONS:

I was confused by the earlier posts. What kind of vaccine should I buy for her?
Also, should I give her electrolytes as well as the Nutri-Drench?
What else can I do about the eye boogers and the Diarreah?
Would the antibiotics sold at TSC help?
 
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I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here, but I think CD&T antitoxin is a waste of money. A tetanus antitoxin may be a good choice if there have been confirmed tetanus related deaths on the property, or if an unvaccinated goat is about to be castrated or has been injured. It has been proven time and time again that Enterotoxemia antitoxins are rarely effective in sick animals and do not offer long term protection against the disease. As colostridial diseases can crop up any time, I think long-term protection is a safer bet. If you are going to vaccinate, I would give her a shot of the CD&T vaccine at a month old, then booster it two weeks later to give her long term protection from both diseases. After her first two doses she will need a yearly booster to keep her immunity.
So she needs a CD&T VACCINE and NOT a CD&T antitoxin?

Does this go hand in hand with the eye boogers and diarrhea? I am going to try to Google this now...
 

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