Roosters 1 too many?

[16 and me]

Hi all,

I inherited a flock of 13 hens and 2 roos a year ago. They're an assortment of heritage breeds, that were raised together. I got them as 1 year olds, they're 2 years old now, except for 1 offspring hen that hatched last August. The Roosters: My alpha is an Americauna. Large, confident and good with people and my dog. The beta is a Polish. He's always been a bit of a spaz, not the brightest roo (gets stuck in corners & can't figure out the escape is to turn around). Last year the roos seemed to be fine together, beta accepted his post. This spring, he's challenging alpha and me regularly. My alpha steps in when he comes at me and he usually runs like a bolt of lightning from his boss. But when alpha mates a hen, he charges at him and jumps on him! Then had to run like the devil to save himself. I suspect I'll be culling him this weekend, leaving me with 1 roo to 14 hens. When I am home, they free range on a large property with coyote and eagle threats, and in a large pen when I am at work. I have a dog that keeps the coyotes away when he is out with me and the birds. Is 1 roo okay? I isolated mr. Beta for an hour yesterday because he was being such a jerk, and boy, the flock was peaceful! And it seemed they stayed together more, with alpha, not spreading our all over the place as when both roos are out. I am hoping that a hen will go broody (at least 3 weeks after beta is gone) and give me a roo fom alpha to take beta's place. Is having offspring roosters a good plan? Will they be more or less likely to get along?
Thanks for any input. Greatly appreciated!

 

[DobieLover]

Having just one lookout is fine. Sexually mature roosters will ultimately fight for dominance. The beta will, sooner or later, try to take the alpha position. It's a natural instinct. Sometimes with related males that takes longer to happen but I've never read of a case where it didn't one day happen.

That said, I would go for a peaceful flock before I thought of adding another male for another set of eyes to the sky. Give them more overhead cover instead.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Is having offspring roosters a good plan?

Many of us raise our own replacements. With the genetic variety of your flock you should be able to go several generations before inbreeding becomes a problem.

Will they be more or less likely to get along?

I don't think it makes a bit of difference if they are related. I think it helps if they are raised together as siblings or as father-son, whether they are blood related or not. If you introduce two roosters that don't know each other they are almost certainly to fight, probably viciously. They may still be able to decide who is dominant and work out an accommodation where both work together to protect the flock, that does happen a lot, especially if they have room. This does not mean that two raised in the same flock will not fight. They will know who is boss. They may fight really viciously, maybe to the death. But from what I've seen, sometimes it isn't quite as bad if they are raised together.

I also personally value peace in the flock more than having another set of eyes. The romance is that a rooster will give his life for his flock. Some will, but mine have been more likely to lead the flock to safety once a threat has been identified than to fight a rearguard action as they flee. In two separate dog attacks where I lost a total of 13 chickens the rooster was not scratched.

 

[16 and me]

Thank you, Fortunately for him, he's been spared a week due to a hen who has an impacted crop I'm focusing on. But his behaviour has cemented my plan to cull him as soon as I have Miss Agnes fixed up.

Having just one lookout is fine. Sexually mature roosters will ultimately fight for dominance. The beta will, sooner or later, try to take the alpha position. It's a natural instinct. Sometimes with related males that takes longer to happen but I've never read of a case where it didn't one day happen.

That said, I would go for a peaceful flock before I thought of adding another male for another set of eyes to the sky. Give them more overhead cover instead.

 

[16 and me]

Many of us raise our own replacements. With the genetic variety of your flock you should be able to go several generations before inbreeding becomes a problem.


I don't think it makes a bit of difference if they are related. I think it helps if they are raised together as siblings or as father-son, whether they are blood related or not. If you introduce two roosters that don't know each other they are almost certainly to fight, probably viciously. They may still be able to decide who is dominant and work out an accommodation where both work together to protect the flock, that does happen a lot, especially if they have room. This does not mean that two raised in the same flock will not fight. They will know who is boss. They may fight really viciously, maybe to the death. But from what I've seen, sometimes it isn't quite as bad if they are raised together.

I also personally value peace in the flock more than having another set of eyes. The romance is that a rooster will give his life for his flock. Some will, but mine have been more likely to lead the flock to safety once a threat has been identified than to fight a rearguard action as they flee. In two separate dog attacks where I lost a total of 13 chickens the rooster was not scratched.

Thanks Ridge Runner, So far their fights have been settled quickly as he backs down fairly quickly, he's a scrawny roo with a big attitude - but I would be very disturbed to see them fight to injury or worse. I was hoping to cull him tomorrow, but I have a hen with an impacted crop I'm dealing with right now, so he has another week if he's lucky! As for inbreeding, that raises a question: Alpha mates with his offspring, (her mother is an Easter egger, dad is Americauna) How many generations before inbreeding is an issue? Can he mate with her offspring too or do you need some new genes in the pool?

 

[Ridgerunner]

How many generations before inbreeding is an issue? Can he mate with her offspring too or do you need some new genes in the pool?

There is no set answer to that. All breeds were developed by inbreeding. Champion show chickens are developed by inbreeding. This inbreeding is often by line breeding, which means breeding fathers to daughters or granddaughters or maybe mothers to sons or grandsons. This is because line breeding is a good way to enhance certain traits. But after a while you start to lose significant genetic diversity which can lead to infertility, loss of productivity, and make them subject to medical issues. The good breeders have techniques to handle that but for a lot of people that means bringing in new genetics.

This may be closer to what you are doing. For thousands of years small farmers or villagers have been raising flocks, often with just one rooster. They keep their own replacement layers and roosters for several generations without inbreeding problems. But after a few generations they bring in a new rooster to reset genetic diversity. How many generations you can go without drop-off will depend in your flock. The more hens and the more roosters you have the longer you can go because of the randomness of breeding. Many of the hatcheries we get our chicks from use the pen breeding method where they may have 20 roosters in a pen with 200 hens. They can go decades and maintain genetic diversity. Most of us may only have a few hens and one rooster and can still go several generations. One thing though is to watch which chickens you allow to breed. Don't breed defective chickens. Your flock has tremendous genetic diversity to start with since you have so many different breeds.

In your situation I would not worry about a rooster breeding his daughters or granddaughters. But eventually you will need a new rooster. That can be one of his offspring or you can bring in an outside rooster.

 

[16 and me]

There is no set answer to that. All breeds were developed by inbreeding. Champion show chickens are developed by inbreeding. This inbreeding is often by line breeding, which means breeding fathers to daughters or granddaughters or maybe mothers to sons or grandsons. This is because line breeding is a good way to enhance certain traits. But after a while you start to lose significant genetic diversity which can lead to infertility, loss of productivity, and make them subject to medical issues. The good breeders have techniques to handle that but for a lot of people that means bringing in new genetics.

This may be closer to what you are doing. For thousands of years small farmers or villagers have been raising flocks, often with just one rooster. They keep their own replacement layers and roosters for several generations without inbreeding problems. But after a few generations they bring in a new rooster to reset genetic diversity. How many generations you can go without drop-off will depend in your flock. The more hens and the more roosters you have the longer you can go because of the randomness of breeding. Many of the hatcheries we get our chicks from use the pen breeding method where they may have 20 roosters in a pen with 200 hens. They can go decades and maintain genetic diversity. Most of us may only have a few hens and one rooster and can still go several generations. One thing though is to watch which chickens you allow to breed. Don't breed defective chickens. Your flock has tremendous genetic diversity to start with since you have so many different breeds.

In your situation I would not worry about a rooster breeding his daughters or granddaughters. But eventually you will need a new rooster. That can be one of his offspring or you can bring in an outside rooster.

Thank you for much insight Ridgerunner!