Ruffly hen

Discussion in 'Peafowl' started by Garden Peas, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. Garden Peas

    Garden Peas Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I've been watching my adult BS hen very closely the last couple of days... seems like she has been carrying her wings a little lower, but she often drops them a bit when she is wandering around inspecting the ground for bird goodies, so not anything I could say for sure. This morning, however, she definitely looked a bit "off" -- she was ruffly and behaving in a more subdued fashion than usual.

    So I gave everyone a healthy dose of Safeguard, mixed up Corid water and filled all the waterers with the outbreak dosage, and we brought the biggest dog crate back from the storage unit.

    Contemplating what to do next. I'm thinking I will bring her in this afternoon so I can keep an eye on her and make sure she is warm. It's been damp ever since it snowed a few days ago, and then rained a bit, and it was back down almost to freezing last night. It's overcast today (it was supposed to be nicer than this) and another storm is due tomorrow evening. So outside is not as pleasant as it has been -- yesterday was quite nice and temperate.

    I'm trying to decide whether to start her on Baytril, or possibly Sulmet, or just watch her poo for a day or two first. There's no sign of any sinus symptoms, her eyes are clear, no swelling, no nasal drainage. I was just looking at her a few minutes ago, and she's not quite as ruffly as earlier this morning, and she was walking around a little perkier and more energetically. I also looked around and did not see any "off" poo, though once I have her in the crate, it will be easier to tell. Everybody else seems normal and totally fine.

    @casportpony do you think I should preemptively start antibiotics? I won't be able to weigh her until this evening, when it is dark, and not sure how much cooperation I will get even then. What would be an appropriate dose of Baytril (I have the 100 injectable) for a medium-sized adult hen? She will be three this summer, and has put on some weight since I started keeping game bird crumbles in the pen... ( They have all gained weight, which surprised me since they seemed content with what they were eating before. Go figure.)
     
  2. KsKingBee

    KsKingBee Overrun With Chickens

    Maybe you should just get the nursery ready....
     
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  3. zazouse

    zazouse Overrun With Chickens

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    How old is she?

    Is she eating?

    Could she have hurt herself coming down from the roost? a sore pea will act this way.

    do not mix sulfa drugs with corrid if they do have cocci and are passing any kind of blood the sulmet can cause more harm and bleeding[​IMG]
    Can you get a photo of her stance so we can rule out wanting to lay an egg?I see ya have a late layer on the other post if this one is very young she could be needing to lay.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
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  4. Garden Peas

    Garden Peas Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Nice photos, Zaz! Yes, she could well have been walking around with her wings down due to the egg laying, for sure. She is also much less ruffly this afternoon, and perkier. She is still eating and drinking, although she wasn't as aggressive at chasing the Safeguard bread this morning. But she was still pretty ruffly then. I am thinking it could just be that she is feeling out of sorts from the onset of laying.

    She will be three this summer, she was born in 2012. She laid fertile eggs last summer, including some late in the fall (like August or September, I can't remember now), and I recall one of them was fertile... she sat on it for about three weeks and when I pitched it, I candled and found a fairly far-along chick. Wish I had noticed when she quit sitting and I'd have popped it in the incubator then...
     
  5. Garden Peas

    Garden Peas Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Well, I just went out to do a last check before the daylight is gone, and spooked her out of the pea-house... I think she may be getting ready to lay another one [​IMG]
     
  6. Garden Peas

    Garden Peas Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Okay, now I have a problem. The Egg Queen has laid four eggs, and appears to not be done yet. But late yesterday afternoon, when I went out to give the third round of Safeguard (I'm treating for 5 days), I found some runny, yellow poo. I wasn't able to get a photo then, but I took one of it this morning... meanwhile it froze, so doesn't look exactly the same as yesterday. I think it looked more yellow yesterday. I didn't find any fresh so far this morning.

    [​IMG]

    I did find some fresh, normal poo in the bird house:

    [​IMG]

    I can't tell yet which of the birds had the runny poo, whether it was the hen, or perhaps one of the two wee peas... It's definitely not all of them.

    I wasn't able to get a good photo of the hen, this is the best I could do as she really wasn't interested in having her picture taken. She's eating and drinking... she was drinking well when I went out, and I found her outside at first light (before the sun came up) hitting the gamebird crumble, so she's clearly hungry. (If I were laying all those eggs, I'd be hungry too!) She's puffed up, but it is cold out there. Since this whole egg laying evolution started, she's been puffed up some, and smooth some... I do think she's feeling the laying quite a bit.

    [​IMG]

    The wee peas are acting their normal selves, but I almost think it is more likely the bad poo came from them. They shoot around in there like flushed quail, so no hope of getting a photo right now. I might try later when everyone starts relaxing in the sun, after it warms up a bit.

    I have just given everyone 3 days of Safeguard, and amprolium at the highest dose in the drinking water for three days as well. I didn't see any runny poo before this started. So certainly frustrating for it to show up NOW. But the weather has been atrocious, damp, chilly, alternating snow and rain, mud in the pen... What we used to call pneumonia weather [​IMG]

    My original plan was to continue the fenbendazole and amprolium for two more days. But I think now that I will change the waterers to sulfadimethoxine (which I have on hand) later on today, when it warms up. I'm going to continue the Safeguard, and call around to see if I can locate some metronidazole.

    I'm thinking about bringing birds into the house, but I dunno which one(s) to bring in [​IMG] since so far, I can't figure out who is producing the bad poo. I'm a little worried about bringing in the hen while she is in the middle of this laying cycle... I dunno if the disruption at stuffing her in a crate and the unfamiliar environment in the laundry room, with all the hustle and bustle of the house, will cause her to have a problem. Has anyone tried bringing in a hen in the middle of a laying cycle? I don't know if the trauma and fear could cause her to become egg bound ... I hope not, but wanted to ask for thoughts from more experienced folks.

    I have Baytril, but don't really want to blanket dose the whole flock, so I'm thinking of waiting with that until I can figure out who's putting out the bad poo. And maybe giving them a few days to see if the sulfadimethoxine clears it up, since no one is acting sick or lethargic, and they have already had three days of the other meds. I'm also wondering if one of the birds got a disproportionate share of Safeguard (there's a lot of bread stealing [​IMG]), whether that could cause that particular bird to have a disrupted poo system just from a really big dose of the safeguard? I don't think that's all that likely, but I wanted to ask.

    Thanks!
     
  7. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    I definetly would *not* treat the whole flock with Baytril, but I would start the ones that look off on it. The dose I use is 20mg/kg in the forward part of the breast muscle. I read that birds have a renal shunt, and that all IM shots should be given in the front part of the breast muscle. Article also said something about more caillaries being there, so remember to get the air bubbles out of the syringe and needle. [​IMG]

    -Kathy
     
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  8. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    This is what I read:

    http://www.fvmace.org/FVMA_83rd_Ann...chnical Procedures for the Avian Patient.html
    Intramuscular injections
    Intramuscular injections are often given more frequently in avian patients than in cats and dogs where IV catheters are more common. However, studies have shown that muscle necrosis happens frequently with intramuscular injections. Therefore other routes of administration should be considered when available. IM injections are most commonly given in the pectoral muscles located on either side of the keel bone. Due to the renal shunt of birds, where blood in the lower part of the G.I and caudal extremities may pass directly through the kidneys prior to being filtered by the liver, it is recommended that injections be given in the upper two thirds of the birds’ breast muscling. These muscles also contain a higher number of capillaries making aspiration before giving the injection even more important.
     
  9. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    You might also consider giving the egg queen a human calcium pill with D3, just don't give it and antibiotics at the same time.

    -Kathy
     
  10. Garden Peas

    Garden Peas Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Good idea on the calcium, she's definitely gotta be going through a lot of it right now. Am really, really chicken about giving shots to them, not confident of my skills, so I thought I would dose the Baytril orally if I can figure out which ones need it.

    So far, the only one that looks off at all is the ruffly hen, but I'm not sure the poo came from her, I am really thinking maybe it was the wee peas. I'm gonna have to watch the pen this afternoon to see who is doing what. And I can't tell if the "off" is from illness or just massive laying.

    What do you think about the plan with the sulfadimethoxine? And what about the metronidazole? Do you think this might be blackhead? The weather has just been so icky... and so much mud.
     

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