Self blue Gene

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by chickenwhisperer123, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. chickenwhisperer123

    chickenwhisperer123 Whispers Loudly

    Mar 7, 2009
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    I recently purchased 4 Self blue silkie chicks (that will be here in 19 days) And am looking for any info I can find on the self blue gene.
    Thanks in advance!
  2. tellynpeep

    tellynpeep Songster

    Oct 4, 2008
    SW New Hampshire
  3. hinkjc

    hinkjc Crowing Premium Member

    Jan 11, 2007
    Self blue is often referred to as Lavender. It is not the same, genetically, as andalusian blue. Lavender (lav) is a recessive gene, which two copies are needed to show the color on the bird's plumage. It is a diluter of black and red. If two copies are present, black turns to a silvery/grey color and red turns to a cream color. Common issues with self blue are poor feather quality and fretting (black marks on the plumage) - I'm not sure if that applies to silkies as well, but it does for normal feathered birds. If you breed two self blue birds together, all progeny should be self blue/lavender in color.
  4. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

    Jan 4, 2009
    Tempe, Arizona
    hinkjc--I think you said it all.

    Silkie breeders have settled on calling the colour lavender rather than self-blue. While not currently in the standard for silkies, I believe that they are very close to applying for the necessary qualifying meet. It will probably be at the next Silkie Nationals if the club can schedule it in conjunction with an ABA annual or semi-annual meet.
  5. shavalgen

    shavalgen In the Brooder

    Mar 7, 2009
    Actually Lavender is not the same as self blue. It's just a common misconception. Lavender was also known as reynold's blue.
    Blue comes in 2 varieties, laced as in the Andalusian breed and self blue which is non laced blue as in the Blue Leghorn.
  6. blackdotte

    blackdotte Songster

    Nov 18, 2008
    Nearly correct, Lavender also known as Reynolds Blue & Self Blue in the US is a recessive gene that affects both black & red/gold.

    Andalusian Blue is a Dominant gene that does not breed true, it is laced in the presence of PG Co & Ml, and unlaced (a self Blue in the rest of the world) when these modifiers are absent,

    A true breeding self blue is obtained by using the Sooty I^s allele of Dominant White. This will give a true breeding self blue bird.
  7. Krys109uk

    Krys109uk Songster

    You people got any references for that? It am curious to read.
    I can only speak for birds in Britain but lavender as in British lavender araucanas & blue as in British blue leghorns appear to be the same gene. I have bred them together & the offspring appeared lavender. The only explanations I can think of would be that they were the same gene or they were alleles. [​IMG] Ideas? [​IMG]
  8. shavalgen

    shavalgen In the Brooder

    Mar 7, 2009
    I can't comment on the true breeding self blue is obtained by using the Sooty I^s allele of Dominant White as I've never had anything to with these birds.

    All I'm saying is that we need to be able distinguish the genetics of the birds. Andalusian Blue (laced Blue), Self Blue (Non Laced Blue) and Lavender.

    What breeds have the self blue based on dominant white?

    The biggest problem I see is if lavender is also called self BLUE then breeder will see blue and blue = blue.

    Lavender crossed into blue isn't at all helpful in a line.

    Krys109uk, if you breed 2 blue leghorn (purebreds) together what colours result?
  9. Krys109uk

    Krys109uk Songster

    Are you saying that there are 3 true breeding blues and then andalusian blue?

    When was I^s first observed & by whom? Do you have references? And the same of Reynold's blue? Are you saying 'Reynold's blue' is lavender or self blue. That self blue is or isn't lavender or 'Reynold's blue' [​IMG] Where can I read about these?

    Krys109uk, if you breed 2 blue leghorn (purebreds) together what colours result

    More blue leghorns.............. & when crossed with Lavender araucanas the same.

    I'd agree that lavender & andalusian blue in the same line is not a good plan, in particular, splash & lavender are a mess together.​
  10. shavalgen

    shavalgen In the Brooder

    Mar 7, 2009
    Not 3 true breeding blues as the non laced blue of the leghorn does not breed true. I breed both black and non laced (self blue) from the one pen. I have heard that there are some lavender leghorns in the UK but don't know their history.

    David would need to answer the question on the I^s gene. The only sooty gene I've heard about was one that turns a black bird with beetle green sheen to a matt black black with no sheen at all.

    If when breeding blue leghorn to blue leghorn you are not getting any black yours are probably the lavender leghorns. The self blue(non laced blue) breeds the same as andalusian blue.
    so we have :

    Andalusian blue (laced blue): incompletely dominant (doesn't breed true)
    Self Blue (non laced blue ) : incompletely dominant (doesn't breed true)
    Lavender (Reynold's blue) : recessive (breeds true)

    Than there's Davids I^s gene. Would like to see pics of these birds.

    The reference I can remember for Reynold's blue was in some information supplied by the Belgian Bantam Club of Australia new members package from years ago.

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