The Self Blue (Lavender) Orpington Proposed Standard Comment Thread is intended for comments concerning the proposed Self Blue (Lavender) Orpington Standard, as drawn up by the American Orpington Poultry Fanciers. Please abide by all BYC rules. Debate on some points is expected. However, the Standard of Perfection (SOP) is firm on most points. An Orpington is an Orpington. A Self Blue is a Self Blue. There is a slight possibliity the term Lavender may be accepted, but at present it is most doubtful. Several breeds have already been accepted with the term "Self Blue". I have spoken with several. Most agree to bow to the hinkjc folks on beak, eye and shank color, as they seem to be hatching more than the rest of us. Also, a few years ahead of us. The Self Blue is found in OE, both large fowl (1965) and bantam(1965); Belgian Bearded d'Anvers (1981); Belgian Beared d'Uccle (1996); Booted (1996); and now Silkie (2010). In each, the beak, eye and shank colors vary sligtly as to breed. In each plumage color is referred back to the OEG large fowl on page 184. Plumage does not vary, but eye, beak and shank can. Have not heard back from the SOP Standards Committee on their thoughts about this. Nor have I heard back from the APA Secretary for permission to post portions of the SOP. Since we are only posting for educational purposes and for discussion as to a standard for a new variety, it should be fine. I also posted on a thread on another board. Sam Brush responded, in part: The original description for Self Blue is under the Large Fowl Old English Games as Brian noted (page 184) , a variety that was incorporated in the supplemental sections of the 1965 edition. Don't forget that the Self Blue Belgian D'Anvers were brought into the SOP back in 1981, with a plumage text description that is essentially identical to the Old English Game LF. Not nearly as attractive as the Andalusian blue form IMHO. I got some personal experience with the Self Blue d'Anvers that came from Bill Holland back in the late 1980's. Brittle feathers, not the best D'Anver type, and stubs. Then APA judge Brian Decker added this comment about photos from hinkjc: Hi Jim I would say that according to the standard the eyes are a little light and the beak too dark for Self blue. Both are small cuts and the birds in the pictures need a lot of work on Orpington type before you worry about eye and beak color. As always with all large fowl breed to the written APA standards. Brian Decker APA/ABA Judge " What you'll tolerate is what you'll have" Thus why many still call this a project. But then our Buff Orpingtons are a project techinchally. Still trying to get that Best of Show! We always have to watch for stubs in Orps. That cochin history pops up every so often. Especially in Bantams. So, I would suggest we get a color description from the hincjc birds and make those changes in the proposed Self Blue/Lavender Orpington Standard. Then we will all have a standard that we can breed towards. Then when it is presented to the Standards Committees every entry will be up to the standard. Before acceptance, every bird entered in the qualifying meets MUST be Orpingtons. The Marans were denied entry until every bird entered were Marans in type. Now the Marans was a new breed to the USA. The Orpington has been here since 1902 (Buff), 1905 (Black, White) and 1923 (Blue). Consistantly Orpingtons win Best of Show. The Lav/SB Orp must be first and foremost, an Orpington. Nothing else will pass.Though many may never show and being in the SOP is not a big deal. To obtain SOP status would bring the Lavender Orpington into its own. No longer just a project bird, but an accepted variety. The Orpington has not had a new variety since 1923. As far as the varietry name. Upon application for acceptance, we can request the term Lavender (if that is what the majority want), but allow the term Self Blue if that is the only way it will be accepted. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Here is the AOPF Proposed Self Blue/Lavender Orpington Standard: Self Blue Orpington Standard Prepared by the American Orpington Poultry Fanciers. ECONOMIC QUALITIES: A general purpose fowl for heavy meat production and for eggs. Color of skin, white; color of egg shells, light brown to dark brown. DISQUALIFICATIONS: Yellow beak, shanks, feet or skin. (See general Disqualifications and Cutting for Defects.) STANDARD WEIGHTS Cock . 10 lbs. Hen 8 lbs. Cockerel . 8½ lbs. Pullet 7 lbs. Shape: See the American Standard of Perfection Orpington Bantams DISQUALIFICATIONS Shape and color disqualifications the same for the corresponding variety of large Orpingtons. (See General Disqualifications and Cutting for Defects) STANDARD WEIGHTS Cock...............38 oz. Hen............34 oz. Cockerel.........34 oz. Pullet.........30 oz. Shape and color descriptions the same as for the corresponding variety of large.* Self Blue Orpington COMB, FACE, WATTLES, AND EARLOBES: Bright red. BEAK: Dark blue/black EYES: Light brown/brown SHANKS AND TOES: Blue, bottom of feet and toes, pinkish white. PLUMAGE: See description of Self Blue plumage color on page 184 (American Standard of Perfection, 2010 edition). In all sections preference to be given to a medium shade of clear blue, free from lacing, shaftiness, mealiness and messiness, with no contrast in color between any of the sections being desired, the male sex feathers of hackle, back, saddle and wing-bows, carrying a metallic gloss of the same hue as the general plumage and free from green, purple or bronze. *From the American Poultry Association "American Standard of Perfection" 2010 edition. For the entire Orpington standard please visit- http://www.amerpoultryassn.com and purchase your copy. The sole purpose of the Self Blue Orpington Proposed Standard is to prepare the variety for acceptance in the American Standard of Perfection. Copyright 2010 American Poultry Association Prepared by the American Orpington Poultry Fanciers.