Separate coops?

[Homemade1]

Hi everyone!
I hope this is the correct subforum for my questions.
First post here and new to owning chickens myself. My wife grew up with chickens, but only for the purpose of eggs. I have a few questions that I haven’t been able to find answers to. Not sure I have even worded my searches correctly. I’m located in WV. I have 9 Rhode Island Reds ( pullets). They are still chicks. Their new home is almost complete (my first coop build.) Will post pics soon. The coop is 8’ x 8’ with 8’ walls. I will have an attached run 8x15’ maybe 20’? the coop is elevated (4’ off the ground at highest corner, 2.5’ ish at the lowest) so that will also add to the run. There is no electric to this building.
My first question is:
The pullets I bought with the intention of laying eggs. I also would like to raise chickens to eat. From what I can tell, those will need to be kept separate with separate coop and run, correct?
Also, for future purposes, if I want to hatch chicks for a sustainable supply, does this call for yet an additional coop and run?
For what it’s worth, I’m not into taking shortcuts or trying to be “cheap”. However, I’m a huge fan of not over complicating things. I like keeping things efficient and stacking functions where possible. This is all for personal consumption/family consumption. Not looking to sell or go into business with this. I hope this isn’t too many questions at once, and am more than interested to reading threads that have already covered these issues. I KNOW those threads are out there somewhere! Thanks everyone!

 

[DobieLover]

You'd need a grow out pen with a predator proof shelter for the cockerels you plan to harvest. A tractor might work well for this.

If you are going to stick with the RIRs for your breed, you need a cockerel or rooster once your pullets come into lay.

You will want space in your coop for a broody to set where you can keep other hens out of her nest. Or use that space as a built-in brooder where you can put chicks that you hatch in an incubator so you can raise them with the adults and integrate them starting at 4 weeks of age.

If you use poop boards that are 2 ft wide, you can use the space under them for a brooder by installing removable walls.

 

[Homemade1]

Great! Thanks for the quick response and great info! That tells me better what I need to look into. Hoping I can do this without building a second full blown building.

If you are going to stick with the RIRs for your breed, you need a cockerel or rooster once your pullets come into lay.

I chose RIR’s mainly because, out of the breeds that I felt best suited me (whatever that really means), these were the most commonly available in my area.

I saw that RIR’s do tend to make an okay dual purpose bird. I know they aren’t a “dedicated“ meat bird, but is it a good breed for one to use for laying as well as hatching and harvesting roosters? I know I want them for eggs but if I can do with just a single breed out of my one coop+run as well as a grow out pen, that would be ideal. Thanks again!

 

[aart]

I have a temporary wall to section off coop for broodies or chicks(I have power out there) and integrate them early.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/integrating-new-birds-at-4-weeks-old.72603/

Eat the cockerels from hatching by 14-16 weeks rather than a separate coop/tractor.

Meat chickens, like Cornish Cross, would be best in a separate coop/tractor.

 

[Vantic]

I agree with @aart.

The answer to your meat question is entirely controlled by what you are eating. Cornish cross do best with a tractor. They are aggressive to food and do not live long enough to merge with the flock. If you are breeding and eating RIR, then one coop and run works great with the above mentioned spaces. Letting the flock see new chicks everyday helps with integration.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I appreciate you wanting to keep it simple, and you can. The problem is that there are so many different ways to do any of this. And that's after you decide what you want to do.

Some people raise Cornish X or maybe Ranger-types for meat. You buy the chicks since it is impractical to hatch them yourself for most people. You butcher the Cornish X at maybe 6 to 8 weeks, Rangers around 12 to 14 weeks. Of course different people do different things to that but I'm talking in general. You'll need a pretty big freezer for all that meat at one time and you are tied to that schedule, not a lot of flexibility.

Some people house them in tractors. Those are relatively small shelters that you move regularly. Some people move theirs twice a day, some less often. Some people pasture theirs. There are different ways to do that. A common one involves electric netting an a movable shelter that needs to be moved a lot less often than a typical tractor. Some people pasture them from a fixed shelter. Tractors and pasturing are if you want them to forage for some of their food. Some people raise them in fixed shelters and runs and provide all the food they eat. Poop management can become an issue, these birds poop a lot.

Lots of different twists, turns, and details to any of these. Some may involve a lot more work than others. But they also have advantages. To me one advantage is that you buy the chicks and 2 or 3 months later your finished with it.

A lot of us raise dual purpose chickens like your Rhode Island Reds. They do not grow as fast or get as big. You will probably be limited in how you can cook them because you typically butcher them later so the meat has more texture. If you try to fry or grill it that meat might be really tough.

You can hatch your own, but I'd get an incubator if you want to have any control over that. You cannot make any hen go broody on demand. If they do it's often not when it is that convenient to you. Some breeds, like your RIR's, will probably never go broody. I love my broody hens, it's great when they hatch the eggs for you and integrate the chicks into the flock. But I also use an incubator and raise those chicks myself. There would be too many times through the year I'd be out of chicken meat if I didn't hatch some myself.

There are more ways to raise and manage dual purpose chickens than there are for the Cornish X or Rangers. You can use the Cornish X/Ranger methods or you can raise them with the flock for part or all their life.

If you hatch you will average as many pullets as cockerels. If you are raising them for meat what are you going to do with the pullets? You could get overrun with pullets pretty quickly. I eat my pullets, some people sell them. You need a plan.

You can find a way to complicate any of these methods, some people seem to enjoy that. Or you can come up with a simple way to do it. I think my method is pretty simple. I've determined I need about 45 chickens a year to eat, so that's how many I hatch. I hatch some with my incubator to tide me over until my hens start going broody. I raise them with the flock and eat both pullets and cockerels.

But this brings up another complicating factor. We all have different conditions, goals, and set-ups. One thing that I think really benefits me is that I have a lot of room, that makes it easier for me. What works for me might not work for a lot of people. What works for them might be a mistake for me. We all have to find our own way, often that means some trial and error. I assure you. I've made plenty of errors.

 

[Homemade1]

Thanks for the replies! This is definitely the information I am after. I plan to eat the pullets as well since I don’t have a big coop and I don’t necessarily see selling them. That might be in the cards if I am getting overrun. Freezer space won’t be an issue. I like the idea of the tractor, I have seen those on here before. Unfortunately, any “moveable“ or relocating type of structure won’t work out for me. I have clear cut the only flat land on my property for the one coop I have. This is my main reason for wanting to keep things “simple” with as few structures as possible. Every bit of my land is steep hillside. This small “flat“ area is across a small mountain runoff from my house. Even then, by flat I mean a 2 foot difference in height of floor from one side of the 8’x8’ building to the other.
One point that was made, which definitely was confusing me before was “don’t expect a hen to go broody.” This is exactly what I was wondering as well. I was hoping Mother Nature would run her course to some degree and some chickens could hatch in the coop. However, it makes perfect sense that probably won’t happen. If I am setup with minimal nesting boxes for collecting eggs, I can’t expect a hen to hatch an egg. New questions, then:

If I am following what is being said, I could treat the coop as a typical egg laying coop with a rooster. I would collect eggs that (I hope) are fertile as I need hatchlings, bring those in to be incubated and raise them inside the house for a few weeks just as I have with my new chicks. After a few weeks, they could all go out to their new home. Cockerels would be placed in a separate pen with shelter and run, pullets could be raised with the other hens at this point with a small area just for them that the larger hens cannot get to. I’m afraid I would have too small of a coop to incorporate these new pullets, should I build a separate housing for them just as I will the cockerels?

Sorry for the long post and all the questions. I try to do this type of thing on my own normally, but I’m trying to make sure I do right by the birds as much as possible. Still looking at what others are doing around the site as well and trying to come up with a solution that suits me best to begin with. Also, thanks for the provided links to the temporary wall and section setup.

 

[archeryrob]

I am like you and I want them for egg laying and for eating. I think you'll find RIR roosters will eat fine, but it is not going to be like the meat birds they are selling in the stores. Birds will be darker in meat and stronger in flavor and not as big. They also might not be very big if from a hatchery. Kill them 14 - 16 weeks too as we killed them older and they got tough quick. IMO, RIR is a nice egg layer you can eat also, but they aren't the best dual purpose. I would consider Plymouth rocks, Delaware or New Hampshire or something else. Lots of posts on this in the meat bird section.

Consider buying a couple birds from a reputable breeder as they will be bigger, better birds. Hatchery birds are about production and selling chicks. They are good starters, but not the best for genetics. I am upgrading to Barred rocks from a farm a couple hours from me. They have large fowl and use show bird roosters that are big to bump the size of their birds also.

 

[Mrs. K]

You are at the beginning of a wonderful hobby with many aspects, and a learning curve. The best laid plans and chickens have never gone quite the way I wanted. My advice is to work into your goals over a 3-5 year plan. This will help you see what will work in your situation.

Year one - I always recommend just hens. Get them up and laying. To me, roosters take experience. I would not add a rooster until my pullets were laying at the very earliest. Not all roosters work out, and roosters and small children can be a tough mix, especially if they are sharing a yard. Are you a true backyard or are you more farm like?

Do you have children under the age of 6? If so, I would strongly recommend no roosters until next year. Roosters can go from the darling to the nightmare in what seems like an instant, but really they have been giving off signals that inexperienced people don't recognize. They tend to attack children first.

As for broody hens, I have always had very good luck with buff orpington, and some black australorps. And I have had fair luck with them raising chicks in the flock. I do have a large run and an adequate coop. When you are considering either building the run or coop, bigger is better. There is nothing more fun than a broody hen with chicks. Some breeds tend to go broody more so than others. I personally love a mixed flock of different breeds, some people don't.

The meat is going to be much different. Personally, I really only like dual purpose birds in a casserole or soup. Each to their own. I got a second coup a couple of years ago, and do raise the cornish cross for table birds in less than 8 weeks. Works for me. You really cannot or should not raise them in with your laying flock.

Good luck, this is a wonderful hobby, but start slow and work into it.

Mrs K

 

[Ridgerunner]

If I am following what is being said, I could treat the coop as a typical egg laying coop with a rooster.

That's basically what I do.

I would collect eggs that (I hope) are fertile as I need hatchlings, bring those in to be incubated and raise them inside the house for a few weeks just as I have with my new chicks.

This is where it really diverges. Different people do every step of this differently. It doesn't mean that anyone is right while others are wrong, just different ways to do things.

My brooder is in the coop, not the house. When I'm at capacity in the summer I have over 50 square feet per chicken and weather they can be outside practically all day every day. There are times it's a few hundred square feet per chicken. I have a coop and two shelters I can use for sleeping them. Bedtime can be a disruptive time, especially with different ages involved. By raising them with the flock and having this kind of room and flexibility integration is a piece of cake. I raise my cockerels and pullets to butcher age with the flock. Others do some version closer to what you mentioned, separating them for different reasons. Maybe they want to feed them differently. They may not like how boys and girls behave when they grow up together. I'll mention room again, the tighter they are the more behavioral problems I have to deal with.

I totally agree plans don't work out exactly as you think. That's another argument for extra room, it gives you the flexibility to deal with things as they show up. We all have our own experiences and reasons to do things the way we do. I'll repeat myself again, what works for me will not work for many people. There is a learning curve, fairly steep at first but it levels out. That comes with experience, trial and error. Sometimes you are really surprised at how things work out.