Should I let Jax do my dirty work? Dog/puppy interaction ?s

[RAWR]

im not sure
you can try it tho
how is he doing btw

 

[Olive Hill]

I know they say it's wrong, but I will admit I do allow it too. I have a female dog who is a wonderful "mother" type. She knows the rules, the dangers, etc and gets right after the other dogs if they break them. She is always submissive to me (and all other human members of the household) and listens like a champ. And if I am right there she never butts in if I am reprimanding a dog, but if I holler across the property at one of them and they don't listen and she sees it and is there she'll get after them to listen up.

Here's the thing, if you just sit on the sidelines and watch a pack of dogs if the alpha dog reprimands a lesser dog lots of times other dogs in the pack with join in with a growl in the "bad" dog's direction. Or a bark or nudge away or what have you. I'm not a dog expert but in observing it seems to me these things aren't a challenge to the alpha at all, but rather a reinforcement. "She said no and we listen to her! Know your place!" is what they seem to be saying, and that's what I often see my female dog saying to the others here as well. "Mom said NO!"

Sometimes this works to our advantage even when we're not right there supervising as if she knows something is off limits and someone gets into it she'll come get us. A couple nights ago is a great example. The duckling brooder is in my home office right now with 2 rouens in it. The door is kept shut. Somehow that night though, it came open in the middle of the night when we were sound asleep on the other end of the house. At 3 am she was at my bedside whining, barking and nudging me to get up. I did and she led me right to the office where my lab had his head in the brooder. The ducklings were unharmed, but had she not told me and he'd had 5 hours to "play" with them before I got up in the morning that may not have been the case.

We can't catch every little thing our dogs do. Sometimes a little help from the pack doesn't hurt, imo, as long as you always maintain your alpha position.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Quote:
That can happen in any circumstance. Most grown dogs will show dominance over a puppy, and at some point that may be challenged. Unless you prevent all interactions between the two one of them is going to be dominant.

Yes one dog will be dominant over the other. And dominance isn't static, it changes over time and interestingly enough dominance in domesticated dogs will be circumstatial a lot of times. For instance: I have seen two dogs in a household where it is clear that dog A is dominant over dog B, they have worked this out. However observe them playing with toys and Dog B becomes dominant in that situation, or for instance meeting/greeting people in the yard Dog B (would normally be the submissive one in other day to day living) will be dominant in that situation all the time.

What I am getting at is that dominance is normal, dominance pecking order will be worked out. HOWEVER the kind of dominance display described by Gritsar is dangerous and will most likely lead to a fight in the future. It's not a healthy direction for the dogs to head in, and as I said before, if Gritsar is asking Kane to do something it should be up to her to enforce and follow thru on either correction or praise. Jax should not feel its his duty to correct in that situation. In essence Jax is also showing dominance over Gritsar herself because he is taking the matter into his own "paws" and not allowing her to follow thru. This is a multi level learning interaction for all invlovled.

 

[hensonly]

Quote:
That can happen in any circumstance. Most grown dogs will show dominance over a puppy, and at some point that may be challenged. Unless you prevent all interactions between the two one of them is going to be dominant.

Yes, it's important to differentiate between the dogs settling the pack order between them (acceptable behavior) and one dog taking your job right out of your hands (not acceptable). Since it may be hard to correct either dog when you're actually using the toilet, you might think about setting up a training situation where you sit on the toilet when you don't need to, then you can get up to correct the younger dog. Which means you'll be right on the spot to correct the older one if he steps in. Part of the younger dog's "thought" might be that he knows you never get up to discipline him...perhaps a bit of "naa, na, na, na, naaaaah, you can't get me!" in his mind. I'm betting it's a game to him.

another thing to try: when you go to the toilet (to really use it), call both dogs to come with you. At the doorway, put them on a down-stay. It's harder for a dog to bark in a down than in a sit, he's not in the habit of barking from a down positon, and it's a more submissive position. This way, both dogs are working, you are in charge, and hopefully it will create a different mind set than if they choose to follow you. Might be worth a try, anyway.

The younger dog is just at the age when his "puppy license" runs out and older dogs are less forgiving of bad behavior. Jax will probably start putting Kane in his place more firmly aroung now, and when it's just between the dogs, that's fine. But when you are giving a command, no other dog should step in and take over. That's blowing you off, and that is never acceptable.

Good luck!

 

[gritsar]

Quote:
Kane is doing good, getting big.

His ears are up, then down, then sideways. I haven't weighed him lately. I was waiting until his next vet visit for a weigh in. He needs to go in soon for his rabies shot.

 

[schellie69]

I allow my dogs to correct one dog if it is something between them such as one dog who was removed from his mother to early and did not learn dog rules he does not allow the other dogs their space I have corrected for it but now just let them do it since it seems to work much better and he has learned faster that way however they all know that myself and Dh and the other humans in the house are alpha's and I correct for most things but sometimes they have to work somethings out themselves so I think it can work both ways.