Should I treat my chicks for coccidiosis???

[Kiki]

I'm tired...it's way past my bed time.
I'll see if I can explain to you tomorrow why it doesn't matter what % the Corid package says..I'll butcher it right now if I try.

 

[Iovemypeeps]

I'm tired...it's way past my bed time.
I'll see if I can explain to you tomorrow why it doesn't matter what % the Corid package says..I'll butcher it right now if I try.

No problem. Sorry if I kept you up! :0 It's way past my bed time too and I'll probably have to get up on time to pick up those new chicks tomorrow! That's ok, you don't need to explain tomorrow, I believe you
Have a good night and thanks again for all your help and all the time you took to reply to me! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!!

 

[Iovemypeeps]

This is such a great community, I am so glad I joined!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Yes...by offering vitamins it can make the medicated feed not work.

Pharmacology/Actions

By mimicking its structure, amprolium competitively inhibits thia- mine utilization by the parasite. Prolonged high dosages can cause thiamine deficiency in the host; excessive thiamine in the diet can reduce or reverse the anticoccidial activity of the drug.
This is taken directly from a veterinarian medical book:
http://www.armchairpatriot.com/Home-Vet/Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook [Desk Ed.] 6th ed. - D. Plumb (Blackwell, 2008) WW.pdf

@Iovemypeeps
Glad you've made it to bed, I'm earlier here on the Pacific Coast but about to head there to.

One follow up since you are planning to add new chicks to this existing batch, I honestly would try to avoid that if you can b/c it means keeping them all on Corid for a bit longer than may be good.

I have personally had chicks exhibit thiamine deficiency from medicated feed and had to remove it. Corid (amprolium) inhibits thiamine uptake and at long term higher doses can cause thiamine deficiency in the host (chick). (You'll see funny stiff toe walking, a typical sign of thiamine deficiency).

You will have to treat your new birds as well as continue to treat your old birds if you mix the two, which may mean you've got your older birds on Corid for quite some time.

All said, I personally would separate the two batches even though it means more work...at least until you know what you are dealing with or until everyone looks good.

Putting shipped-stressed birds in with potentially sick birds is begging for problems.

Also don't take away the probiotics! That is essential for the gut health that naturally keeps the coccidia in check.

I just had a very interesting conversation with my organic farmer SIL, and they kept a whole flock of broiler chicks coccidia free this summer (in hot humid, coccidiosis prone Tennessee) by using fresh organic cow manure. The prebiotics and probiotics in the manure helped keep the gut flora optimal in the growing meat birds. They sprinkled it over their food and scratch area. They noticed a huge difference with flock improvement over prior years.

So keeping optimal gut health is essential for battling coccidia. Meds are for outbreaks, herbals for maintenance, but environment and gut health are essential foundation to keep a healthy flock.

My 2 cents.
LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Fwiw: You may want to read these two too.
They show that Coccidiosis can show symptoms as soon as 24 hours:

The oocyst sprorulates (develops so that it becomes infective) in as little as 24 hours under optimum conditions (a humid environment at 25-30ºC).
http://www.chickenvet.co.uk/health-and-common-diseases/coccidiosis/index.aspx

and
Under proper conditions of temperature and moisture, the oocyst develops within one to two days to form a sporulated oocyst, which is capable of infecting other chickens. At this stage, the oocyst contains eight bodies (called sporozoites), each of which is capable of entering a cell in the chicken's intestine after the oocyst is eaten.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex4616


Chicks can bring Coccidiosis home with them from the hatchery.

Yes...and that first resource is what I used in my original argument with some experts about how coccidiosis can happen in very young chicks.

However, having oocyts, and even passing them, does not mean that the levels are actually at a danger zone yet in the animal. That takes time to develop until it overwhelms the gut in the chick. I learned it is the levels of oocysts and coccida that cause symptoms. Chickens pass oocysts before they show illness. And that grows exponentially each day, depending upon the strain. As the coccidia build up in the gut, symptoms arise.

Generally, from what I've been told, and from my research, that typically takes a couple of weeks to reach symptomatic levels.

But without actual fecal samples, there is no way of knowing the cause or level.

So back to a prior question...yes...that is why in cases with a young chick when it can be either bacterial or coccidia (a fast acting strain), I liked to use the Sulmet...but now would go to the Di-Methox...it addresses both possible causes of the symptoms.

Unless, of course, herbal is preferred to avoid antibiotics...then it is back to Corid and as much Oregano you can pump into them.

LofMc

 

[Iovemypeeps]

@Iovemypeeps
Glad you've made it to bed, I'm earlier here on the Pacific Coast but about to head there to.

One follow up since you are planning to add new chicks to this existing batch, I honestly would try to avoid that if you can b/c it means keeping them all on Corid for a bit longer than may be good.

I have personally had chicks exhibit thiamine deficiency from medicated feed and had to remove it. Corid (amprolium) inhibits thiamine uptake and at long term higher doses can cause thiamine deficiency in the host (chick). (You'll see funny stiff toe walking, a typical sign of thiamine deficiency).

You will have to treat your new birds as well as continue to treat your old birds if you mix the two, which may mean you've got your older birds on Corid for quite some time.

All said, I personally would separate the two batches even though it means more work...at least until you know what you are dealing with or until everyone looks good.

Putting shipped-stressed birds in with potentially sick birds is begging for problems.

Also don't take away the probiotics! That is essential for the gut health that naturally keeps the coccidia in check.

I just had a very interesting conversation with my organic farmer SIL, and they kept a whole flock of broiler chicks coccidia free this summer (in hot humid, coccidiosis prone Tennessee) by using fresh organic cow manure. The prebiotics and probiotics in the manure helped keep the gut flora optimal in the growing meat birds. They sprinkled it over their food and scratch area. They noticed a huge difference with flock improvement over prior years.

So keeping optimal gut health is essential for battling coccidia. Meds are for outbreaks, herbals for maintenance, but environment and gut health are essential foundation to keep a healthy flock.

My 2 cents.
LofMc

Late night and early rising.. not a good combination! Lol the new chicks came bright and early at 7:30 this morning!! one was DOA but the others seem to be doing well so far except for one tiny one that was peeping really loud for a while before, I don't know what was wrong... they had food and water and it was plenty warm enough... it made a weird sound when it was peeping, I could hear a kind of grinding noise coming from inside when it peeped... it stopped peeping now tho and is just sleeping a lot so I'm just keeping an eye on it.. it might be a failure to thrive... I've given them all electrokytes ahd probiotics and gro gel.. they are soo tiny compared to our one week olds!! I hadn't realized how much the other ones had grown!
Yea I thought it probably wasn't a good idea to keep them all together either since we think one is sick because then the new ones would be exposed and they are only 3 days old so that is really young to start them on medicine already!:/ however we only have one heat lamp and we didn't really want to buy another one... right now the new chicks are in a cardboard box inside the original brooder. If I keep them in the box for the 5 days that the one week olds are on Corid (or de methox whichever I decide to use), will that be separated enough from the one weeks old chicks so that they won't have to start medicine too? ( because they will be eating and drinking from separate feeders and will not be exposed to their poop) I'll try to send a pic of the set up in a minute. Except my 3 year old brother took a whole bunch of pine shavings from the 1 weeks olds brooder and dumped it in the cardboard box with the new chicks I had changed their pine shavings only about 2 hours before so there wasn't too much poop in them, but if there was any poop in the shavings that would mean that the new chicks would be exposed if the one chick has coccidiosis so maybe I will have to start the new chicks on meds now :/ we just don't want to have to buy a new heat lamp if we don't absolutely have to since it would only be needed for 5 days until the other chicks are done with their meds!?Ok thanks for the info, I won't take the probiotics out then! That's interesting about the cow manure! But I should take out the electrokytes right??

 

[Iovemypeeps]

Btw I still haven't started the Corid yet because I haven't had a chance to go to the feed store and get non medicated food yet and also look for the de methox (because if I can find that, I want to use that!) it's been a super busy day so far!

 

[Iovemypeeps]

 

[Iovemypeeps]

Here is the brooder set up. Are the new chicks separated enough from the old ones?

 

[Iovemypeeps]

Yes...and that first resource is what I used in my original argument with some experts about how coccidiosis can happen in very young chicks.

However, having oocyts, and even passing them, does not mean that the levels are actually at a danger zone yet in the animal. That takes time to develop until it overwhelms the gut in the chick. I learned it is the levels of oocysts and coccida that cause symptoms. Chickens pass oocysts before they show illness. And that grows exponentially each day, depending upon the strain. As the coccidia build up in the gut, symptoms arise.

Generally, from what I've been told, and from my research, that typically takes a couple of weeks to reach symptomatic levels.

But without actual fecal samples, there is no way of knowing the cause or level.

So back to a prior question...yes...that is why in cases with a young chick when it can be either bacterial or coccidia (a fast acting strain), I liked to use the Sulmet...but now would go to the Di-Methox...it addresses both possible causes of the symptoms.

Unless, of course, herbal is preferred to avoid antibiotics...then it is back to Corid and as much Oregano you can pump into them.

LofMc

Makes sense! Do you know if you can buy de methox in stores?