Showgirls considered full bred or mutt?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Shared Acres, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Shared Acres

    Shared Acres Chillin' With My Peeps

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    They aren't listed in the APA standard of perfection, of course, the color listed looks to be white for silkies (earlobes purple it says), so the book overall doesn't appear to be too helpful.

    Are showgirls considered a mutt? Or are they a recognized breed?
     
  2. greyfields

    greyfields Overrun With Chickens

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    You can put birds in which do not appear in the APA standard.... but... since there is nothing to judge them against, at best you may get a blue ribbon. You wouldn't be eligible for a higher award.

    That's the issue with chickens. There are no breeds. You can't do a genetic test and prove your bird is one thing or another. It all comes down to how the particular chicken conforms to the Standard of Perfection. It could be born from an Ostrich and sired by a wolf; but if it matches the APA SoP it would win.
     
  3. Shared Acres

    Shared Acres Chillin' With My Peeps

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    LOL.

    I found a free download of the book from google and it was so vague.

    If I read it correctly it said the color is supposed to be white for silkies. But we all know they come in different colors than that.

    Not a very helpful book!
     
  4. Marlinchaser

    Marlinchaser Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oct 18, 2007
    MERRY LAND
    Showgirls are Mutts, just like a labradoodle or a Puggle.
     
  5. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    They can be considered a variety of the Silkie, in the same concept as a Silkie in an unrecognized by APA color. Birds that more or less match the Silkie breed type but having a color or a characterstic not (yet?) approved can be shown in AOV class- Any Other Variety.

    Many of them certainly are far from mutts, especially those that have been bred past 10 generations of showgirl x pure silkie crosses. These are pure silkie in every genetic sense, save for the naked neck.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  6. Marlinchaser

    Marlinchaser Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oct 18, 2007
    MERRY LAND
    Quote:In other words if I breed my beagle with a poodle for long enough it is no longer birthing MUTTS???

    If you put the X with a pure on one side, and anything but a pure(of the same breed) on the other side you are getting crosses=MUTTS

    Until there is a standard and they are accepted as a stand alone breed they will be MUTTS.

    Let me guess the next question Are EE's a pure breed?? Well they have been sold as a breed, mind you one that doesnt breed true, and has no set standards, but ........... [​IMG]
     
  7. blackred

    blackred Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Do they do genetic tests on other animals to prove that they are purebred before showing?

    Bob
     
  8. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:In other words if I breed my beagle with a poodle for long enough it is no longer birthing MUTTS???

    If you put the X with a pure on one side, and anything but a pure(of the same breed) on the other side you are getting crosses=MUTTS

    Generations. Not one same dog x poodles, repeatedly.

    If you cross a beagle to a poodle, then the puppies will be a cross. They can be considered mutts also.

    If you choose one of the cross pups to another pure poodle, it is a mix.. 3/4 poodle and 1/4 beagle. Again they can be considered mutts if one wants to.

    Cross the 3/4 pups again to a pure poodle.. well, the poodle genepool keeps increasing in each generational cross of 'cross' bred to a pure poodle. 10 generations in, their genetics, if studied will have very minor differences from 'pure' poodles. These dogs will look identical to any other 'pure' poodle.. so if you cannot tell by looking at the dog it descended from a cross 10 generations ago, is it still a mutt.. even though if you were never told, you would never have known this ancestral fact?

    IIRC, they have banned docking in England. As a result, some breeders who love the look of short/tail-less boxers have crossed boxers to natutally tail-less breeds. Then they bred the tail-less dogs to pure boxers with the intent to achieve dogs that match the boxer standard in every way, except being naturally tail-less.

    So if you have a dog that looks 100% boxer and you could not tell visually that it was not until you noticed it had no tail at all.. is it a mutt? Or an Boxer with something unique introduced in for political/ethical reasons?

    Quote:You keep talking about breed, when it is VARIETY being talked about here. VARIETY is variation within a BREED. White, black, blue are VARIETIES within a breed. On the same concept, showgirls are a naked necked VARIETY of the silkie. That is why they can and have been entered as AOV- Any Other Variety.

    Quote:Guess you have not seen my comments on EEs. I keep saying they are not a breed and therefore no standard so literally anything goes. I have repeated several times that if someone wants to go for a specific pattern or frizzled or even silky EE, to go for it as there is no standard and nobody can tell them they are wrong.. precisely because there is no standard, as they are not a breed.

    Also, according to what you're saying so far then splash silkies are not silkies in any way.. they have not been accepted into the standard(yet? People are working on it) despite Blue already being an accepted color(variety!) in the standard.. splash is natural result of being pure for blue.

    Lastly.. crossbreeding goes on at very high rates in poultry breeds anyways. Both by backyarders and the top rate show breeders. Many top rate show birds have had crosses in their recent ancestries.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  9. mikarod

    mikarod Chillin' With My Peeps

    Sep 28, 2008
    Oklahoma
    I think Splash birds of ANY breed should be accepted into the SOP.
     
  10. LilPeeps

    LilPeeps Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jan 13, 2007
    SE Mass
    Splash is a recognized color in silkies (although certainly not in all breeds that are recognized in blue), as well as white, black, buff, partridge, grey and blue. Any other color would be considered an AOV and can be shown as such. A showgirl is considered an AOV silkie, and can come in any color that a silkie can. An AOV bird cannot win BB or RB...best AOV is the highest they can get, until that variety is recognized. The goal in breeding in showgirls is the same as the SOP standard for a silkie, with the exception of a naked neck.
    In virtually every breed, other breeds have been introduced to incorporate certain traits (color, type, etc.). If you were to look back into the history of almost ANY breed, there will be, at some point, one or more different breeds in the background, brought in for one purpose or another...does this mean that they are all mutts? No, but according to the reasoning of some, this would be the case, and if it were, there would be no real reason to be breeding to the SOP, as no one could EVER be working with a pure breed, regardless of the effort or number of years put into it...
     

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