Sick Birds! help!

Discussion in 'Turkeys' started by Amadeusb12, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Amadeusb12

    Amadeusb12 Out Of The Brooder

    17
    0
    22
    Jun 5, 2009
    New York
    I have a flock of Royal Palms. A few weeks ago I notice one female showing signs of upper respiratory illness. It has not effected her eating and drinking. Two days ago our favorite tom fell ill. I found him lying in a corner- very cold and coughing/ sneezing/ rattling. I brought him in the house and left him in the tub. I gave him electrolytes orally. Because it was late I could not get Tylan 200 till the next day. I started him on 2.3cc TID- he weighs 27lbs. He immediately started sounding better. No harsh noises and sneezing by the time he had his third injection. Unfortunately he is now showing signs of possible neuro impairment- he can't put his foot flat under him, he knuckles over. He is not able to rise easlily, but once up and helped to put his foot flat he can remain upright. He is still eating and drinking- HELP! We don't have any vets in the area that do fowl. Our other tom just started sneezing. Is there anything I can do? Anyone have any idea what this might be? I have read endlessly and think rhinotracheitis sounds possible.
    Why did the disease take so long to affect the rest of the flock? I started the original hen on Tylan this evening. She still only shows signs of upper respiratory involvement.
    Should I treat the water of the rest of the birds? Should the other tom be started on Tylan also??
    sorry if I sound like an idiot. These are our first turkeys. They have had no problems the past year and a half. I know people will ask- yes, they come in close contact with chickens, but mainly free range.

    Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Beth
    I can be reached via email, [email protected]

    edited to add:

    His feces have been normal volume and texture. He did have some evidence of loose stool on the second day of tx.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2010
  2. Frosty

    Frosty Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,921
    31
    213
    Mar 30, 2008
    ND
    You are giving 2.3 cc three times a day? As in 6.9 cc a day? I'm not sure, but that may be too much, especially with the Tylan 200. I did a quick search to see it I could find anything on dosage and did find an old post with the following: Dosage (IM) is still 35mg/kg. The 200 will just require a smaller amount. I think the 50 works out to about 1.5cc per 4lb. If that is the case, with the Tylan 200 you would probably need something like 2.5 cc once a day (sid).

    How are you giving it, orally or injected? If injected, where are you injecting? Tylan can cause muscle damage, so if you are injecting in the thigh, I have to wonder if that may be causing problems?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2010
  3. Amadeusb12

    Amadeusb12 Out Of The Brooder

    17
    0
    22
    Jun 5, 2009
    New York
    injected in the breast. These are not birds for meat, so I'm not concerned about his muscle. I can go down to BID and see if that works. I know Tylan can be given TID- I may have been giving too high a dose. Thought my math was right:(
    forgot to add: this tom showed signs of mild lameness earlier in the day when he first fell ill.

    Beth
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2010
  4. Frosty

    Frosty Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,921
    31
    213
    Mar 30, 2008
    ND
    I just looked up Tylan 200 on Elanco's site, for cattle it's 1 ml per 25 pounds, for swine it's 1 ml per 50 pounds. ml=cc. I think you are giving too much, just my opinion.
     
  5. Frosty

    Frosty Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,921
    31
    213
    Mar 30, 2008
    ND
    How long have you been giving the Tylan? They say 3 days for cattle and swine, and say to give it once a day. As far as the other birds not getting sick right away, it may come down to immune systems. On the few ocassions I has respiratory problems in my flock, it was always just one bird and never spread further even though I didn't remove the sick bird. I used Tylan 50, and usually just a single dose. Then I waited two days to see if I would need a second dose, but never did.

    So the lamness is probably something else. Have you checked the feet for splinters or anything? Any chance he got hurt coming off the roost? Does he have secure footing in the tub?

    Poor thing, I hope he feels better soon!
     
  6. Amadeusb12

    Amadeusb12 Out Of The Brooder

    17
    0
    22
    Jun 5, 2009
    New York
    set up a hospital stall for the tom that was in the house (James) and the hen. They are under heat lamps. I will look into the Tylan further to check dose. I did not give the third dose- just in case I am overdosing the poor bird [​IMG]. James was eating and drinking well at night check, but is still not standing right. I am hoping that by giving him a bit more room he might be able to find his footing better. The tub was just a last ditch effort to get his body temp up- it kept him confined and i raised the temp in the bathroom. It got him stable and allowed the antibiotics a chance to work. He is really too big LOL. Nevermind the mess!
    Hopefully the morning will bring a positive change. He has had 6 doses of Tylan. The hen has had two.

    Thanks for your advice.
    Beth
     
  7. Boggy Bottom Bantams

    Boggy Bottom Bantams Overrun With Chickens

    7,401
    75
    288
    Mar 9, 2008
    Hahira, GA
    hi Beth,

    the Tylan muscle damage isnt a if you want to eat them deal, it;s a damage to the muscles deal, in other words, it hurts the bird. It is recommended that you never inject it to the same spot twice during treatment, thats what they meant there, so be sure to pick a different injections site every day, and yes once daily is all you need to be giving.

    As for what it is, and why the others took so long. Some of these bugs have a long incubation period, and coupled with different immune systems, it just varies as to when the others will show signs, but yes if one has it, you can bet all the others have been exposed. If it truly a respiratory infection, well, nothing cures it. It just has to run it's course, all the antibiotics do is stop other infections from getting them while they are down with it. A true respiratory infection is like a cold in us, in that way.

    Some of them are chronic too, meaning they will get better, but will always be carriers of the disease once they get it and cant spread it to ther birds even if they look fine later on.

    How do their eyes look? Are they swollen, foamy, scratch at them or shake their heads a lot? Turkeys are bad about getting MG (mycoplasma gallepsum) or more commonly called, CRD (chronic respiratory disease) This is one of those that they will continue to be carriers of, so I hope it isnt it.

    As for the lameness, that really could be anything, If the other birds arent showing that too, I would feel same in saying it's unrelated to this. Big toms will often get bumble foot too, check his pads and see if they are swollen looking for that. Then there are a hole world of illnesses that can cause lameness as well. It is possible that if he had a respiratory problems, than it weakened his system and let him catch something else too (thats where the antibiotics do help)

    In general, most respiratory infections will go away after about 2 weeks, a broad spectrum antibiotic during this period will help fight off other problems, but watch that Tyan, dont over do it trying to fix a Cold, it's not going to and can damage the bird if you give too much milder oxytetracycline based water soluable powders will be best for the long run, they are much safer for long term dosing.

    Good luck with them
     
  8. Steve_of_sandspoultry

    Steve_of_sandspoultry Overrun With Chickens

    I agree with BBB, Tylan 200 causes major muscle damage. I had read on another forum that they were recommending injecting just under the skin not into the muscle.

    I would treat the rest of the flock with Tylan powder in the drinking water, you want to knock this and any other illness out as soon as possible. If you just treat one or two you are chasing your tail since they have all been exposed to whatever it is and like a cold in us the longer you wait the worse it gets and the harder it gets to treat. I get that from my Dr on my rare visits to him....why didn't you come sooner. lol

    The lameness could be from weakness or just unsure footing, of he may have injured it during treatment.

    Steve
     
  9. Amadeusb12

    Amadeusb12 Out Of The Brooder

    17
    0
    22
    Jun 5, 2009
    New York
    thanks for the info. I was unaware of the muscle issue. I have not injected in same location. but, I can switch to sub q . I will check the feet carefully on the tom. Can I switch to baytril? Will that cause less damage??

    Beth
     
  10. Frosty

    Frosty Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,921
    31
    213
    Mar 30, 2008
    ND
    I am really sorry if I sounded harsh last night... Sleep deprived and I was very concerned when I saw the dosage. Pound for pound that is 6 times the amount that you would give a cow, and 12 times the amount for a pig. Tylan works very well for respiratory issues, so I am not worried about using it, just in smaller doses.

    I believe the folks that give it sub-q give it under the skin between the wings or somewhere in that area? I don't think I would give the tom any more at this point... How is he today?
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by