Sick hen (update: now dead) part of a 6 month death party PICS Page 2

[TajMahalChickens]

(Here is what the original post was about: a sick hen I had. It turned into my whole flock death problem)

Tonight when I went to lock my chickens up, my 9 month old Banevelder was sitting on the floor, not on the perch. Come to think of it, I have in the past seen her sit down when she stops. You could say woop-de-doo, but I quote from Hobby Farms Chicken Magazine Vol. 1 No. 2, " When it (a chicken) pauses, it doesn't sit; it stands erect with its tail held high."

At first I thought that her sitting habit was just her personality, but now with her not jumping on the perch I am beginning to worry.

Furthermore, I noticed that her poop was white and green and runny. Then I knew for sure something was up.

I know that she doesn't have very much evidence for disease so far (she isn't droopy at all), but I want to jump on top of it right away, because I know that an early detection and treatment has the highest rate of survival.

Could this be worms? I do not worm my birds. Start of a bacterial infection? I do have some penicillin on hand, so should I give her that, or should I wait it out?

Thanks!!!!

 

[artsyrobin]

my first guess would be botulism because of the green poop- here is a thread discussing it-

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=125130

and info on a flush if that is the case

Three horses- Flush for botulism

Then you need to do a flush please. Do you have molasses or epsom salts?

I like the molasses flush personally. But either will work and is necessary either for extreme mold mycotoxins or botulism; same treatment, different followup that can be done for both.
---------- from MSUCares -----------------
Molasses Solution

Add one pint of molasses to 5 gallons of water

Offer the drinking solution free-choice to the affected birds for about four hours. Treat severely affected birds individually if they cannot drink. Return the birds to regular water after the treatment period.


- or -


If the birds are not eating, use the water solution. If the birds are unable to eat or drink by themselves, use individual treatment with:

1 teaspoon of Epsom Salt in 1 fl oz water

Place the solution in the crop of the affected bird. This same amount of solution will treat 5-8 quail or one chicken.
--------------------------------------------------

On molasses, 1 pint = 16 ounces (or we'll say 15 ounces)

divide that by 5 you'll have just over 3 ounces per 1 gallon of water.
30 cc's = one ounce, so 90 cc's = 3 ounces.
Divide that by four, and you'll get 22 cc's per quart waterer.

1 ounce = 6 teaspoons; thus 3 ounces = 18 teaspoons; since we said a little more than 3 ounces, if we round up to 20 teaspoons it's 20 teaspoons/1 gallon.

4 quarts to the gallon means 5 teaspoons molasses per quart of water.

Do this for four hours - she must get the water as her only source of water. Adding some electrolytes to it doesn't hurt, or you can give her electrolyte water afterwards. I mix some yogurt in the water to replace good bacteria as well.

You must flush out the toxins to heal her. I like the molasses as it's more mild. After the flush, you have to replace her electrolytes to heal her and the yogurt in the water helps. Tomorrow try to get her to eat dampened crumbles with yogurt, some polyvisol vitamins as mold toxins deplete oil vitamins. (3 drops in the beak, the Polyvisol baby vitamin without iron from the vitamin section of drug stores, oddly not the baby section).

Clean up all her droppings in case it's botulism, though more likely it's from soured food.​

 

[TajMahalChickens]

Thanks for the info.

I research botulism and it seems like she would develop symptoms soon after she ate the contaminated carcass/food. But she has had this "sitting" symptoms for a couple months at least. Could it still be botulism? I haven't notices any paralysis of anything, unless her sitting habit is some paralysis of the legs.

Even if she didn't have botulism, would a flush hurt? I am willing to do anything to keep her alive (I am not willing to add any more birds to my 14 birds dead in 8 months out of 33 birds).

Thanks

 

[artsyrobin]

hmmm... i don't think botulism would prove out if this behaviour has been her 'habit'- is it possible to post a pic of her? besides the droppings- what is she eating, other symptoms etc? how is the grip on her feet? also, if it were me, i would isolate her to observe her behavior -

 

[janinepeters]

What did all the others die of? Where did you get them, and are they all the same age? All the same breed?

 

[TajMahalChickens]

besides the droppings- what is she eating, other symptoms etc? how is the grip on her feet? also, if it were me, i would isolate her to observe her behavior

To be honest, I haven't really noticed any other symptoms. As far as I know, she is eating and going outside. I don't know if she is laying/if she stopped laying. I think will isolate her so that I can find some more things out.

What did all the others die of? Where did you get them, and are they all the same age? All the same breed?

I got 30 chicks on March 17, 2010, from Nature's Hatchery. The breeds were (parentheses are bird that I now have):

5 easter eggs (3) One had a brain tumor, other I gave away
3 faverolles (3)
2 delaware (1) A progressive disease that slowly made her droopier and droopier. Lost a lot of weight. Near the end her eyelids were half closed. Survived for a month after we isolated her. https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=367102
2 campines (0) Dog killed one, the other we found dead in the run. The only weird symptom that we noticed was that she would walk on the hocks sometimes.
4 welsummers (1) One had a purple comb (probably hear failure), other had fowl pox, then became droopy and lost weight and died. Other eaten by raccoon https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=430429 https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4017052
barnavelders (2)
2 cocoo marans (2)
2 white leghorns (2)
2 buttercups (1) My rooster buttercup died of Mareks https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=418474
2 guineas (2)
2 sebrights (0) died in shipment

In my other coop (which had my existing flock)

2 14 month old red stars (1) Purple comb, kept on not moving around until she just sat a day before she died. https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=424842A
buff orpington and a silver laced wyandotte, still alive, both 2 1/2 years
A light brama, 2 1/2 years, found her dead by the compost pile after a day of free ranging. However, it was not a predator.

Well, there are all my deaths.

I consider myslelf a good chicken owner. My sanitation is quite good; I disinfect my coops twice a year, and add bedding when needed. I don't leave dead birds lying around. I bleach the dog crate and all my utensils after isolating a sick bird. I disinfect my boots often. I scrub the waterer each time before I refill it. I feed scraps, but I make sure to peel all potatoes. Now they have a large grass run, and they often free range. I have a 8x10 coop to hold my (now) 19 flock, allowing 4 sp. f. per bird. I have four vents on the near the ceiling. My coop has an inch of insulation for the cold weather here in Wisconsin.

Some things you could call me on is that I let my bird eat fallen bird seed under the bird feeder. I visit other chicken flocks. Until august, they only had a small dirt run.
I don't worm, and I haven't vaccinated.

Hopefully that help in diagnosis.

Thanks​

 

[Judy]

Was it proven that one died of Marek's? If so, this might be what is going on with all of them.

Chickens do not ordinarily die of fowl pox. It may have just been a coincidence that fowl pox happened along with something else, unless it waas a bad case of wet pox, of course.

A purple comb simply means there is a decreased amount of oxygen, which has many causes.

With that many deaths, sounds like you need to get at least one autopsied properly.

 

[TajMahalChickens]

No, it was not proven, but if you look at the link you can read in detail the symptoms that I described. We concluded that it was marek's because he had one leg forward and one leg back. And he actually didn't die naturally of it, we but him out of his misery.

I never checked for wet pox, but I agree with you that it wasn't fowl pox. Her fowl pox actually cleared up three days before she died. She lost a lot of weight and she was droopy. there are more details in the link.

With that many deaths, sounds like you need to get at least one autopsied properly.

I have considered that. I just have no idea where to look for some one to do it.​

 

[TajMahalChickens]

I am just about freaking out. When I went to let the chickens out today I found her dead. DEAD! She was barely sick yesterday! Her appearance was just like any other chicken. She had a full, red comb, not pale and shriveled. She wasn't lethargic or droopy. Any it wasn't like she that much. I would just be filling the feeder, and maybe she would sit for 30 seconds then move on.

I would have liked to have done an autopsy on her, but I didn't know how long it would take for me to find someone to do it, so I already disposed of her. But I am going to start looking now. Any idea on cost of an autopsy?

I am still looking for answers. Not just for this chicken, but for my whole flock problem. At this rate I'll lose my whole flock by spring.

Thanks for your time

 

[janinepeters]

I like the autopsy idea. Why not freeze the body until you can find a vet that will do the autopsy. It's been a while since I had an animal autopsy. Does $50 sound right for a cat (about 10 yrs ago)? I would think that any vet who sees birds would do it.