Squishy sour crop....ACV...yes or no?

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by brennamae, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. brennamae

    brennamae Out Of The Brooder

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    We have an 11 month Araucana, who appears to have a sour crop issue. It's very full and squishy. We have isolated her to our garage in a caged off area, and have her on just water and apple cider vinegar (Braggs). It's only been about 5 hours since we did that so we'll see how she does. I did notice that after drinking the ACV, she does seem to be shaking her chest a little and cocking her neck more than normal. So I did a bit more research on here and found a link that says not to use ACV, as it's acidity counteracts what you want to have happening. They recommended baking soda, but everything else I've read says ACV (or proper medication).

    Thoughts?
     
  2. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    I would try a proper yeast infection drug. Can you get any Diflucan or Nystatin?
     
  3. Michael Apple

    Michael Apple Overrun With Chickens

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    An older remedy which has worked for me was Spartrix canker tabs (metronidazole). Some people have had success with giving birds Monistat orally for sour crop or flushing the crop out with 1 tablespoon of epsom salt to 1/2 cup of water and syringing it down the bird's throat and into the crop.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  4. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    I had two necropsied that had been on metronidazole (Flagyl - antibiotic), both had yeast infections. That's not what killed them, but the metronidazole sure didn't help their fungal infections, which is what a yeast infection is, right? [​IMG]
     
  5. Michael Apple

    Michael Apple Overrun With Chickens

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    Well metronidazole is for fungal infections as well as protozoan parasites that cause canker. Thus the foul smell coming from the bird's mouth. Mention the recommended dosage for Nystatin/Medistatin if you think it will help the poster instead of metronidazole or miconazole. Someone had success with miconazole:
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/630307/sour-crop-cured-with-monistat
     
  6. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    I'd love to see some data on it as an anti-fungal, really. [​IMG] Because what I know is this:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    Pratice what you preach, if you think metronidazole will work, post the dose. I will post the dose of Nystatin and Diclonfonec once I take pictures of it, but I've got to do chores right now.
     
  8. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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  9. brennamae

    brennamae Out Of The Brooder

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    Well, I called three different feed stores this morning asking if any of them had either acidified copper sulfate or nystatin. No dice. I may order some from Murray McMurray hatchery online if I can't find anything local. And just keep her on ACV + water for now until we figure it out.

    So yes monistat or no? I read the monistat thread on here and it seems like it has a fair deal of success stories. If so, I could go down to the pharmacy and see if they have any..
     
  10. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    I just noticed a hen that believe has vent gleet, which is a yeast infection at the other end, lol, so I am going to try using the Nystatin that I just bought. I haven't read the directions on the Nystatin container, nor have I looked at it in my "Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook", but when I do, I will post more info.

    If you want to buy some Nystatin, check out this link:
    https://www.google.com/search?sourc...4j41.0.0.0.6031...........0.Tts_fIndk9w&pbx=1

    I think we bought ours on ebay:
    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=medistatin&_sacat=0&_from=R40

    I've also read the stories about Monistat. I guess I would try that if I had no other choices.

    This is from my AAAP Avian Disease Manual - 6th Edition

    [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]CANDIDIASIS[/FONT][/FONT]
    (Thrush; moniliasis, crop mycosis, sour crop, muguet, soor, levurosis)
    DEFINITION
    Candidiasis is a disease of the digestive tract caused by the yeast-like fungus


    [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Candida albicans[/FONT][/FONT]. The
    disease generally involves the upper digestive tract and usually occurs as a secondary infection.
    EPIDEMIOLOGY

    [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Candida albicans [/FONT][/FONT]



    is a common yeast-like fungus that has been recognized as a commensal organism in
    poultry and mammals for many years. Candidiasis has been reported from a variety of avian species, such as,
    chickens, turkeys, pigeons, game birds, waterfowl, and geese. In poultry it seldom has been considered a
    disease of major importance. Young birds tend to be more susceptible than adult birds although all ages can be
    affected. When birds become debilitated or the normal digestive tract flora is altered, the ingestion of fungus in
    the feed and water can result in mucosal invasion. The production of a soluble endotoxin may also contribute to
    pathogenicity. Common predisposing causes include lack of good sanitation, prolonged treatment with
    antibiotics, heavy parasitism, vitamin deficiency, high carbohydrate diets, and immune suppressing or
    debilitating infectious diseases.
    CLINICAL SIGNS
    Signs are non-specific and include, listlessness, inappetence, retarded growth, and ruffled feathers. In
    advanced cases or diarrhea. The signs may be masked by the clinical signs of a primary disease. In advanced
    cases, the crop may not empty and may become fluid filled. The bird may regurgitate fluid with a sour,
    fermentative odor, i.e. the name “sour crop”.
    LESIONS
    1. Lesions vary greatly in severity. They are more common in the crop, mouth, pharynx and esophagus, but
    may involve the proventriculus and, less often, the intestine.
    2. The affected mucosa is often diffusely or focally thickened [


    Fig. 1; Candidiasis; UC Davis], raised,
    corrugated and white, looking like terry cloth [


    Fig. 2; Candidiasis; UC Davis]. Lesions may also appear as
    proliferative white to gray pseudomembranous or diphtheritic patches and as shallow ulcers. Necrotic
    epithelium may slough into the lumen as masses of soft cheesy material.
    3. Lesions of a primary predisposing disease may also be present and should be investigated. In particular
    one should search for evidence of coccidiosis, parasitism or malnutrition.
    DIAGNOSIS
    1. Characteristic gross lesions are generally adequate for diagnosis. Histopathologic examination of the
    affected mucosa usually will confirm invasion of the tissue by the septate fungal hyphae.
    2.


    [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Candida albicans [/FONT][/FONT]grows readily on Sabouraud's dextrose agar. However, since [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Candida [/FONT][/FONT]is commonly
    present in normal birds, only the demonstration of massive numbers of colonies is of significance.
    CONTROL
    1. Practice a high standard of sanitation in the poultry operation. Phenolic disinfectants or iodine preparations
    should be used to sanitize equipment.
    2. Prevent other diseases or management practices that might debilitate the birds.
    127

    3. Avoid over treatment of birds with antibiotics, drugs, coccidiostats, growth stimulants and other agents that
    might affect the bacterial flora of the digestive tract.
    TREAMENT
    1. Copper sulfate at a 1:2000 dilution in drinking water is commonly used both for prevention and treatment
    but its value is controversial. Nystatin in feed or water has shown efficacy against candidiasis in turkeys.
    2. Routine addition of antifungal drugs to rations probably is a waste of money since elimination of
    contributing factors or other diseases usually will prevent candidiasis. However, if sanitation is at fault and
    cannot be improved, antifungal drugs may be advisable.
    128
     

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