Stealth Rooster?

[MrsEarthern]

I have six ~21 week old Australorp Orpington crosses, and I know neither breed was intended to be feather sexed, so how can I be sure?
I'm 99.9% sure one of my birds is a roo due to feathers and behavior, and much less sure about one of the others because the feathers are much blunter and rounded, and difficult to see detail on due to dark color overlapping. Has black feathers with a greenish and then white chevron and then black again at the ends, some longer pointier saddle feathers coming in on the sides but hackles look more like the hens still.
So this is Chimi, he's got the big pointy red comb and wattles, the clearly male hackles and saddle feathers, and does the rooster dance. He chases and mounts the ladies and otherwise seems to act like a classic rooster, he started crowing this past week.

Nightshade next to Chimi ~20 weeks

Nightshade really plumped up, now my largest bird and these saddle feathers are pointier than my other hens but not as pointy as Chimi.
Now the confusion comes from this: Nightshade has been my most vocal bird, and recently started crowing in the morning with Chimi, but also does the "Bawk-baw-kah!" that the hens do. Nightshade does not do the rooster dance, but does chase and try to mount the ladies. Nightshade is bigger than Chimi, and challenges him, but responds to his rooster dance with a peck on the head and allows Chimi to mount.
Is there any way to know for sure without a lab test or do I just need to wait until they are laying and see if I get more than four eggs?

 

[gimmie birdies]

Both look like roosters, they look good.

 

[TheOddOneOut]

Males, both of them.

 

[TheOddOneOut]

It’s easy to be sure. They have male saddles and crow. No eggs will ever come from them.

 

[3KillerBs]

and much less sure about one of the others because the feathers are much blunter and rounded, and difficult to see detail on due to dark color overlapping.

You can put your hand or a piece of paper under the saddles so as to see the shape clearly.

 

[MrsEarthern]

You can put your hand or a piece of paper under the saddles so as to see the shape clearly.

I have looked at them, just haven't been able to get a good photo since they only let me handle them in the evening and aren't as comfortable with my husband or kids. Nightshade had wide rounded feathers where Chimi's taper to points, and Chimi is getting more of the long thin saddle feathers across his back and his sides where his wings rest but Nightshade only has a few of the long thin white and black saddle feathers there on the side where wings rest, and isn't hiding more under the wing that I could tell.

 

[Sussex19]

I'm definitely seeing to cockerels.

 

[MrsEarthern]

The Buff brown one is not in question, the black one is. Can I ask what specifically draws you toward rooster for the black bird Nightshade?
Nightshade is my most affectionate bird, and when I pet them, the breast area feels soft and fatty like my hens, where Chimi's breast is flat and sort of concave.
My bird Lacy has similar patterning to Nightshade, and is also getting a few of the long thin saddle feathers on the side and the same rounded loose feathers on the back, both these photos were taken on the sixth, so ~20 weeks old. Also a rooster then?
They all come from the same breeder but maybe different broods, supposed to have all hatched within a week or so of each other and one of my girls has the ratty feather gene common in Blue Australorps, if that helps.

 

[Sussex19]

What I'm seeing in one of the first pics, the one with a close up of the saddle feathers, is that they are pointed. Pointed saddle feathers = cockerel.
However, I could be mistaken, but I see some other more experienced folk are seeing the same thing.
Also, if its crowing that means its a cockerel, some hens might take over the role of roo, but not when they are young with a real cockerel or rooster.

 

[MrsEarthern]

What I'm seeing in one of the first pics, the one with a close up of the saddle feathers, is that they are pointed. Pointed saddle feathers = cockerel.
However, I could be mistaken, but I see some other more experienced folk are seeing the same thing.
Also, if its crowing that means its a cockerel, some hens might take over the role of roo, but not when they are young with a real cockerel or rooster.

I'm not a believer in vocal birds always being male, and may or may not give extra treats for talking.
The issue with Nightshade's saddle feathers is that it does have some long thinner black and white saddle feathers at the side, but the feathers on the back is just the pattern, after the white triangular shape the tips are black and overall the feather shape is pretty round on its back, and Lacy the similar looking one is getting long thin black saddle feathers on the sides but back feathers stay round all the way down. They are approximately 21.5 weeks and Chimi the brown roo has been noticeably a boy since 18/19 weeks and he lost some feathers on his back as those feathers came in but my hens and Nightshade have not lost feathers from their backs in the same way.

Nightshade ~16 weeks old

Nightshade and Chimi ~16 weeks old

Chimi already looking patchy a few days after I got them.

Nightshade and Chimi have their heads up. At 19 weeks Chimi's feathers already coming back in, Nightshade is glowing up, but never had any thin or bald patches.

You can see the pattern better in this photo I think, Nightshade at 20.5 weeks, but the feathers are much shorter and rounder than Chimi's.
I guess I'll have to wait and see if I ever have more than four eggs.