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swollen padding? what is going on with my silkie's feet??

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by romea, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. romea

    romea Chillin' With My Peeps

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    i recently got 2 silkies and noticed that one was quite unsteady on her feathered feet. their feet were crusted with dried faeces and i attributed her gait to that and gave both a foot bath.

    during the next days, she was still wobbly and seemed to favour either feet. i also noticed that she appeared eyeing her food in a way that made me think she might be either shortsighted or that her field of vision was seriously obstructed by her fluffy feathers. she is low on the totem-pole-pecking-order and i was assuming that her eyesight/impeded view might be a contributing factor.

    in addition to all that, she also came with neck feathers along the front glued together by some white ‘stuff’. maybe some food? or worse: some paint??
    i eventually i gave her a bit of a ‘haircut’ - and ended up with lice crawling all over me. [​IMG]
    so... i treated my whole flock with selamectin (revolution).

    days later and the poor thing is still everything but sure footed…
    i took her back inside and photographed her feet. the padding looks swollen and feels soft to the touch.

    i am new to chickens in general and silkies in particular and have never seen a bumblefoot (except what i am finding on google - but those pics look quite different from my silkie’s feet - i think).

    in any event, here are 2 pictures:

    her right foot…

    [​IMG]


    … and her left foot...

    [​IMG]


    is this bumblefoot (respectively bumblefeet)?
    btw: the scales don’t appear raised - but even in case she had leg mites, i am assuming that the selamectin would treat this, too. (?)

    does anybody have any idea what might be going on?
    she is a sweet little girl and otherwise quite ‘happy’. she's eating (although i am not seeing her drinking much but i also offer fermented food) and i make sure that she goes to bed with a full crop.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  2. romea

    romea Chillin' With My Peeps

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    today, i bought epsom salt & an antiseptic ointment that should also have some “drawing properties" (http://www.rawleigh.net/antiseptic_salve.htm). the little hen just soaked in her bath (1/3 cup of epsom salt on a litre of warm water?) and i took new pictures:


    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    not sure if the ointment makes much sense as i am not seeing any wounds or abrasions. (some small reddish spots at the end of her claws is lint from a red towel.)

    thoughts, anybody?
     
  3. Eggcessive

    Eggcessive Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

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    Gout and mycoplasma synoviae can be possible causes of swelling in the feet. I don't see evidence of bumblefoot in your pictures, but it usually is more localized to the foot pad, and has a dark dot on bottom or or red inflamed area in between toes. The white material stuck in feathers could have been lice eggs. Lice are killed instantly with sevin or permethrin dust, used every 10 days untils no lice or eggs are seen. Here is some info on lice, gout, and MS:
    http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-i.../avian-gout-causes-treatment-t1246/165-p0.htm
    http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publications/6/diseases-of-poultry/232/gout
    http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pou...nfection_in_poultry_infectious_synovitis.html
    http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2012/08/poultry-lice-and-mites-identification.html
    http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8162.pdf
     
  4. romea

    romea Chillin' With My Peeps

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    wow! very impressive, eggcessive!! thank you so very much!!!

    as for the neck feathers, initially i was quite sure that i was not dealing with egg sacks as i imagined the texture of a clump of eggs would feel differently to what i was feeling during my attempt to clean them... but little do i know... so, prompted by you, i took a closer look - this time with the help of a jewellers loupe. here is what i am seeing:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    so i am assuming that these are indeed eggs - respectively what's left of them?

    will they remain there until she goes through a moult? interestingly, the vent area appears to be clean. does this make any sense?
    in any event: i am treating the flock with selamectin. (except for DE, i am not using insecticides/pesticides in a dust/powder version for environmental reasons.)

    as for the feet, i doubt that i am dealing with gout. she hatched this year and there is no swelling on the top of her feet/around the joints etc. - also not sure about the mycoplasmosis as she does not exhibit any respiratory problems (nor are the other 2 silkies, which i got from the same breeder).
    however, i am certainly considering a renal problem (without signs of gout - yet). while she is not exhibiting excessive thirst, her droppings might be a bit more on the dry side - but i might also be imagining this.

    btw: i emailed the pictures to a vet and since she is not showing signs of oedema in her legs, he suggested that it might be a reaction/sensitivity to the faeces that were covering her feet in clumps and, thus, localized. hm...

    for now, i am giving her daily epsom salt baths and am using polysporin with vit-e on the padding (the version without lidocaine). i’ll see if anything else becomes more apparent. *sigh*

    any further thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
  5. Eggcessive

    Eggcessive Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

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    The lice eggs will hatch out into lice approximately 10 days after being laid. So you will need to watch for new lice, and dust at 10 day intervals until no eggs are seen. I haven't done this, but coconut oil is supposed to remove lice eggs.
     
  6. romea

    romea Chillin' With My Peeps

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    once again: thank you!

    fyi: 1 of the first things i did was to dust her with DE. hence i am assuming that the eggs i photographed are already dried out. on close-up, they look ‘broken’ to me.
    in any event: i will re-treat my flock with selamectin in about a week (which will make it 2 weeks after the first treatment) and also re-dust them with DE periodically.

    as for her feet: they are starting to feel more normal with less swelling. with that being said, the newest thing i am now facing is a backwards-walking chicken.
    after seeing her doing this for 2 days, i am starting to get worried… last night i researched it and am finding wry-neck as well as neurological problems et al. as a possible cause. oh man…

    today i will be giving her a first dose of the only vit.-e & selenium supplement i currently have handy: an older batch of new chapter "e & selenium food complex” which lists 33,5 mg of a probiotic vit-e versionS as well as 100 mcg of selenium in combination with a multivitamin from the same company (without iron).
    unless advised otherwise, i am thinking of observing her for 2 more days before adding anything else - such as meloxicam and/or prednisone. i have both available but no antibiotics (except for tetracycline 250 for livestock which is a supposed to be mixed with several gallons of water etc. - when downscaled to a single dose, it is a very sour tasting concoction).

    btw: i found this information here very helpful: http://oureggbasket.blogspot.ca/2013/04/wry-neck-or-crook-neck-understanding-it.html
    dosage information: http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=casestudiesemergencies&action=display&num=1160927052

    it is still early here and the birds are still sleeping... as of yesterday, she did not exhibit any crocked neck - "just" the backwards motion as the only steps she would take. so far she has been eating on her own but i feel i have to encourage her to do so.

    (edited to include dosage information for "crookneck" treatment.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2014
  7. Eggcessive

    Eggcessive Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

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    DE won't help with lice or mites if there is an infestation. I've only used selemectin on my dogs or cats, so I can't say if it will take care of the lice on chickens. If the selamectin does not help, permethrin or sevin dust, or 10% permethrin spray will kill the live lice on contact. The in 10 days repeat it, and check in 10 more days to see if they need more.
     
  8. romea

    romea Chillin' With My Peeps

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    i doubt that i am dealing with an infestation. at least i am not seeing any problems since i have used the selamectin (revolution) as mentioned.
    you will find the dosage in the fourth post down: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/704004/revolution-yay
    (kelly uses the strongest version: 120 mg/ml selamectin @ 0.05 per kg.)

    some more success stories are here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/233933/mites-revolution-selamectin

    the benefit of selamectin - as i see it - lies in the fact that it works through the internal pathway:
    quote from wikipedia: so no dust etc. is ending up in the chicken coop respectively outside, killing beneficial insects.
    also, and as you know from your mammals: it fights both internal & surface parasites.
     
  9. Eggcessive

    Eggcessive Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

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    When I said infestation, I meant that there are already lice present. DE may help prevent lice and mites, but it won't get rid of them if they are there already. When there are lice eggs, there are lice.
     
  10. ralleia

    ralleia Chillin' With My Peeps

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    What is the size and shape characteristic of your roosts?

    I've been studying roost design as we are building a new coop, and came across a very detailed article describing research results into how the size, material, and shape of the roost affects chicken feet and their sleep. There was discussion about pressure on the pads versus the keel bone that you might find of interest.

    I doubt it would be direct cause of the issues, but investigating the roost design might make them more comfortable and speed recovery.

    http://www.yourchickens.co.uk/care-and-advice/the_perfect_perch_1_2842822
     

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