The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

Hatchery Hive

Chirping
5 Years
Jan 13, 2015
138
23
63
GFF is not the gold standard. They currenty have the best on the market, but they are not the gold standard. IMO. They have some excellent specimens, and people have purchase excellent speciemens from GFF. However, people have also gotten specimens I would not use to breed. IMO. But, it's a starting point. I'm not trying to diss GFF, just saying we should strive for better.

I acquired my original Ayam Cemani pair directly from Toni-Marie. When I asked about the non-black chicks they were producing, TMA told me they were "land race". Others said my pair weren't pure or I had a fence jumper. I knew right then that it would be a battle trying to convince anyone I was a dedicated breeder if I didn't drop it. Instead I dedided to forge ahead and work with what I was given. When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade. My original pair produced roughly 1/3 of these oddballs. With stringent selection for breeders, their offspring are producing only about 5% off these oddballs. That's right, in only one generation I was able to reduce the occurence of wrong colored chicks dramatically. In addition I've been able to improve the amount of fibromelanosis internally from scant traces (a few dark spots and yellow bones) to fairly consistently gray meat marbled with black and accompanied by black bones, black gizzards, and black connective tissues. I'm also starting to get seom fibromelanosis in the hearts. Of course some of my culls are still way off the mark, but enough of them are showing these traits that I know I'm improving my stock and not just breeding chickens with black feathers.

All this tells me that the breed can be improved no matter your starting point. It's disheartening to see so many posts of people nit picking over white toenails and missing the bigger picture.

If you all want, I'll post pics of two of those off colored chicks. I only have three currently. Two I kept for possibly a project and one was just so pretty in his own right I want to see how he looks when he's a little older. I have no use for him and will probably just give him away to a pet home. He doesn't even qualify as fm.
Well said CJ....
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bluenkimchi

Songster
7 Years
Sep 13, 2012
437
28
111
Excuse me, but when people say cemani(US imported lines only) are more gamey looking than svart hona, what do they or you guys consider gamey looking? No arguments intended, but I would like to hear your opinions on the term "gamey looking" in your own words. I have my own opinion of that term and will keep it to myself. Again just like to hear what gamey means to each of you?

Thanks in advance
 

Chotii

Songster
10 Years
Jun 14, 2009
244
4
144
Seattle area (Kirkland)
Some weeks ago, someone on eBay was selling eggs from an 'Albino Ayam Cemani'. He looked like an ordinary Indonesian landrace chicken to me. The asking price for the eggs was ridiculously high. When I inquired, the seller said someone he considered to know about such things had told him the bird was albino. It had, however, a dark green tail (carefully cropped from the pictures but you could still see a little.)

As I said earlier, I would not be surprised to see the occasional throwback (not a sport - sports are mutations, unless one assumes that the FM mutation itself has failed.) This can happen in any breed. If that were not true, breed standards would not be necessary.
 

Pyxis

Hatchi Wan Kenobi
Project Manager
Premium Feather Member
9 Years
Mar 27, 2012
21,355
49,733
1,192
Vermont
My Coop
My Coop
That seller is one we suspect was on here at one time trying to scam people, so I'm not surprised they're still up to it.

Is anyone getting eggs from their birds yet without artificial lighting? I put the rooster in with them and they love him and were following him around the coop as soon as he appeared. There was a quick spat with the head hen but otherwise everything went perfectly. Now just waiting on eggs. My layer flock is starting to pick up again so my fingers are crossed that they start up soon.
 

Chotii

Songster
10 Years
Jun 14, 2009
244
4
144
Seattle area (Kirkland)
To me, 'gamey' means long legs, long bodies, and a much more upright stance than with the dual-purpose type breeds. I would also expect to see small combs that don't need to be dubbed as much.
 

PhoredaBurds

Songster
6 Years
Feb 7, 2014
1,167
354
226
NY Finger Lakes Region
@Hatchery Hive and @cjwaldon thank you for the info on chicks. I lucked into a hatch rate much better than I expected. Although I did get a couple super black chicks, I was a little disappointed to see so many white wing tips and white toes on the others. At first I was concerned my birds were not as pure as I thought. Howver, it is very helpful to read that some white is normal and part of the breed improvement process and that culling & breeding just the darkest ones can bring improvement over just a couple generations. Thank you for the honesty & support!
 

Chotii

Songster
10 Years
Jun 14, 2009
244
4
144
Seattle area (Kirkland)
We have also found that pure black chicks are smaller - and, unfortunately, not as vigorous. Our mortality numbers are much higher for ones born solid black. Can anyone corroborate this and/or suggest a reason?
 

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