The Cream Brown Variety

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Poultriary, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. Poultriary

    Poultriary Chillin' With My Peeps

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    This topic is geing started as an offshoot of the Pumpkin Hulsey topic in which a discussion of the Cream Brown variety as found in the Australian version of the Old English Game Bantam is shown, as in this photograph on the UK edition of Feathersite:

    http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/Games/GameBantams/CreamBrownOEGRooOz.JPEG

    Please share your photographs, any understanding of the genetics or breeding that created this color variety and any other information on the breed.

    Especially welcom are any Australian poultry breeders that can provide insights on the Autralian standard and how the breed is bred and show there.
     
  2. cgmccary

    cgmccary Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jjlloyd8585 likes this.
  3. Poultriary

    Poultriary Chillin' With My Peeps

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    So, what breeding is he from? The bantams I have that resemble the Cream Brown are from a Silver Duckwing AGB cock from Rosen American Game Bantams over a Pumpkin Sport Minigame from Rocky Top Game Farm. I do not know if I have the actual Cream gene (ig), as Pumpkins have a lot of unknowns and my have multiple dilution genes at work in them.

    Also, has he thrown any cockerels that have carried over the coloration?

    Thanks
     
  4. cgmccary

    cgmccary Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Actually, I do not breed game except to make more game hens which I use for broody mother hens. IMHO, game hens make the best broody & mother hens. Instead, I breed Buckeyes and La Fleche.

    A friend gave this male and three game pullets to me. This male and two of the pullets came from GreenFire Farms back when they claimed to be carrying "Pumpkin Hulseys." I like the Cream Brown color and picked him over the more traditionally colored Hulseys. He was the only male in the batch with this color. This male crossed over a Buckeye hen produces fantastic sized meat birds which are very large. Buckeyes are a broody breed so a Game X Buckeye also makes a very good broody hen (and larger than the game hens so can sit on more eggs). I have used him in this capacity.

    This male is 3 years old (hatched in early Spring 2010). He is extremely human friendly-- almost like a pet dog.
     
  5. Poultriary

    Poultriary Chillin' With My Peeps

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    In general, I find that the games are less human-aggressive than your typical utility or meat breed. I've had to deal with a human-aggressive Cochin (a "bonus" chick from our first batch of hatchery chicks) and several bantam Barnevelders, never human aggressive American Game Bantams. I've also had two large Fowl Eslin Red Quill cocks and neither has ever show the slightest sign of aggression towards me. I attribute this to the fact that all of the information I've read on cockers is that they are very intent on culling what they call "man hunters". The game standard I have identifies "Man-hunter" as a DQ. This only makes sense if one considers their potential to do some serious damage, if they were inclined, especially since they also tend to be handled significantly more than your typical meat bird, which ends up in a big pen with a bunch of other birds.

    In any case, I think what we're seeing in both of our birds is probably the interaction of the Ginger genetics with the Wheaten genetics. In both cases, the males have the duckwing color pattern under most circumstances. Pumpkin Hulseys and the Rocky Top Game Farm pumpkins I've used (which I strongly suspect were created by crossing Pumpkin Hulseys with Ginger and/or Wheaten Old English Game Bantams) have so many things going on in them that you see a lot of random color patterns segregating out of them, including "Sports (splash and/or khaki)". I suspect this is because the PHs depend on heterozygous gene pairs in a number of loci to create their unusual muted ginger coloration. I don't think anyone has them figured out completely, as evidenced by the fact that Henk and Marvin don't agree on just what is going on.

    I asked a few questions of one of the Australian members at the Ultimate Fowl Forum and he tells me that what I have is a "Ginger Duckwing" by his understanding. This a considerably more sensible name that "Cream Brown". To me a "Cream Brown" would be more descriptive of a "Brown Red" with the cream gene added.

    I've done some additional reading on the cream gene (ig, from "inhibitor of gold") and I'm doubting it is involved. Since it would dilute all gold coloration, I don't know how you would get such strong ginger color in the body and the light golden coloration in the hackles and saddles if ig was present.
     
  6. draye

    draye Overrun With Chickens

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    It is pretty no matter what you call the color.
    Are they reproducing their color?
     
  7. Poultriary

    Poultriary Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Well, I believe they should be able to be stabilized. I think what is going on is the Db gene from the Ginger Red and Red Quill to turn the areas that are black on Duckwings to Ginger. That should be stable. The question is how to get the right color on the hackle feathers. Maybe it's just the Db gene adding some yellow/gold to silver hackle and saddle feathers? Or maybe it's having lightening effect on gold hackles?

    Mine is from an F1 cross between a Silver Duckwing cock and a Pumpkin hen. The same cross produces a Blue Golden Duckwing with a laced blue chest instead of the ginger chest with increasing white to the aft end. So, at this point I don't know how stable it is. but there's no reason it shouldn't be stable on a duckwing, other than the cream hackling being a kind of cream color may be due to it having a Silver gene from the father and a Gold gene from the mother (S-s).
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  8. rbclark

    rbclark New Egg

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    Could somebody help me understand what the "Eslin Red Quill" is? I ask because I have acquired over the past year several flocks, from different sources, of Pumpkin Hulsey gamefowl. One seller included in the sale two "Linered" hens. He did not know what they "are." Is it fair to assume that they are "Eslin Red Quills"? In any event, what is known about the history of either "Linered" or "Eslin Reds"? Below are photos of the two "Linered" hens and their mate (no longer living).
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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  9. rbclark

    rbclark New Egg

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    Could somebody also help me understand what a "Duke Hulsey" is? Once again, the fellow from whom I bought a Pumpkin Hulsey flock included a pair of "pure Duke Hulsey" birds. He did not know how a "Pumpkin Hulsey" might differ from a "Duke Hulsey." I am sorry to post such ignorant questions, but I am also very curious. Photos of the two "Duke Hulsey" birds below.

    [​IMG]
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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  10. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:thats exactly what is turning that birds hackle and saddle, cream, the S(silver) is diluting the gold(s+) to a cream color. he is basically a Golden male.. and since there is no Golden female(they are either gold or silver, not both) you cant stabilize that color...
     

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