THE Village's Idiot NA Heritage Turkey Coop Coupers Chat

[perchie.girl]

Hay here is a premium....only comes in a three strand bale. The first time I saw or heard of a round bale was back in 2000 when I brought my horse home from Washington state. I got on line to talk horse with a draft horse group back east.

The Hay is grown thirty miles away in irrigated fields in the Imperial valley. They cut hay year round here.

Straw is seven dollars a bale... three strand probably around 90lbs.
Bermuda is 18 dollars a bale.... Three stand around 125 lbs.
Alfalfa is 20 dollars a bale.... again three strand but around 135 lbs.

I can only afford to buy ten bales of bermuda a month. Horse feed. and when I have Goats four bales of alfalfa lasts a month. I had four Nigerian dwarfs. I bought premium alfalfa for them.

I free feed the horse... One whole bale goes in an avocado crate for her. its something she wont gorge on and she can nibble on all day every day and keep her weight perfect. It takes her three days to eat a bale.

The four goats got a whole bale of Alfalfa on a four wheeled wagon... they too disassembled it them selves. When I next have goats they will have space of their own in the poultry house with a couple of sleeping decks. The feed will go into a hopper where they cant climb on top and make a mess there.


I use baled Shavings for bedding.... its easier to deal with. I prefer Rice hulls for bedding The horse loves em and they are a great Landing cushion for birds coming off the top tier of the roost. I put my roosts as High as I can for the guineas. Which is about five feet up. I also hang theirs so it wiggles a lot when they are moving around. LOL they can do foot races on em... Guineas are also fun to watch.

For the chickens I have one roost at five feet one at four and an intermediate launch point of either a board or upturned bucket. I note from the poo they all use the top perch. But the deal is the bedding is just to protect their feed for landing. I will be using canvas slings under the perches for poop catchers in the poultry house

This is my mode of transportation at home....



I take the back bar off and a bale of shaving balances quite nicely on the seat. The walker will hold four hundred pounds. I use it to carry in bags of feed too. The gate from where I get into the yard is about seventy five feet from the chicken coop.

I haven't had poultry on the place for a good two years now. My plan is to move the coop from where it is to a spot where I can back the car up and unload feed and supplies right in the poultry house

I will be raising Guineas primarily with a few Sumatras to act as broodies. The guineas will be first incubated by me. Then The Sumatras again incubated by me. Sumatras are my choice for the task because they will be brooding Guineas eventually. Sumatras are tough wily and good fliers as well as very good foragers. My hope is they will be able to keep with the Keets. Free ranging wont happen here till I get my breeding stock built up...

When I get turkeys it will only be a couple of Wild as I had before. Just because they are soo fun to have around. I would want them as pets...

The poultry house will be 24 x 24 feet and everyone would be in the same house. Should I make a separate house for the turkeys?

deb

 

[CanuckBock]

Hay here is a premium....only comes in a three strand bale. The first time I saw or heard of a round bale was back in 2000 when I brought my horse home from Washington state. I got on line to talk horse with a draft horse group back east.

The Hay is grown thirty miles away in irrigated fields in the Imperial valley. They cut hay year round here.

Straw is seven dollars a bale... three strand probably around 90lbs.
Bermuda is 18 dollars a bale.... Three stand around 125 lbs.
Alfalfa is 20 dollars a bale.... again three strand but around 135 lbs.

I can only afford to buy ten bales of bermuda a month. Horse feed. and when I have Goats four bales of alfalfa lasts a month. I had four Nigerian dwarfs. I bought premium alfalfa for them.

I free feed the horse... One whole bale goes in an avocado crate for her. its something she wont gorge on and she can nibble on all day every day and keep her weight perfect. It takes her three days to eat a bale.

The four goats got a whole bale of Alfalfa on a four wheeled wagon... they too disassembled it them selves. When I next have goats they will have space of their own in the poultry house with a couple of sleeping decks. The feed will go into a hopper where they cant climb on top and make a mess there.


I use baled Shavings for bedding.... its easier to deal with. I prefer Rice hulls for bedding The horse loves em and they are a great Landing cushion for birds coming off the top tier of the roost. I put my roosts as High as I can for the guineas. Which is about five feet up. I also hang theirs so it wiggles a lot when they are moving around. LOL they can do foot races on em... Guineas are also fun to watch.

For the chickens I have one roost at five feet one at four and an intermediate launch point of either a board or upturned bucket. I note from the poo they all use the top perch. But the deal is the bedding is just to protect their feed for landing. I will be using canvas slings under the perches for poop catchers in the poultry house

This is my mode of transportation at home....



I take the back bar off and a bale of shaving balances quite nicely on the seat. The walker will hold four hundred pounds. I use it to carry in bags of feed too. The gate from where I get into the yard is about seventy five feet from the chicken coop.

I haven't had poultry on the place for a good two years now. My plan is to move the coop from where it is to a spot where I can back the car up and unload feed and supplies right in the poultry house

I will be raising Guineas primarily with a few Sumatras to act as broodies. The guineas will be first incubated by me. Then The Sumatras again incubated by me. Sumatras are my choice for the task because they will be brooding Guineas eventually. Sumatras are tough wily and good fliers as well as very good foragers. My hope is they will be able to keep with the Keets. Free ranging wont happen here till I get my breeding stock built up...

When I get turkeys it will only be a couple of Wild as I had before. Just because they are soo fun to have around. I would want them as pets...

The poultry house will be 24 x 24 feet and everyone would be in the same house. Should I make a separate house for the turkeys?

deb

Yes, forage is like that. Cheap cheepy in some areas and over the top in others.

Let's see, we have had dry and wet years...both issues to hay prices and straw.

I have seen squares of alfalfa go for $5 for 70 pounds, up to like $11 for the same and not good quality (like to see leafy...one of the reasons we buy it to begin with!).

Squares of oat straw (light, so like 15 to 20 pounds I think)...are getting harder to find. We have in the past ordered ours and paid any where from $1 a bale (blew my mind!) to $3 and $4...I think it is painful for people to put it up and well...there IS a market for it because our straw square pile has always been robbed by people swinging by to get a few bales. LOL Sure they pay but HEY, we ordered it and we WANT all we ordered, eh.

The rounds of oat straw are like $20 (sorry no idea the weight...let's just say you donna want one rolling you over, eh)...so much easier too to come by. I truly think the small squares are just a pain for producers. I love them for the birds, so always a risk I will not have any when we run out in two year's time. Oh well. Keeps me on edge I suppose.

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I am hugely happy with slicing open the netting and seeing the oat straw just unravel for loading up. I get that tight wound bales mean more product but fighting with some of them is not that pleasant in the colder temps.

We still have to purchase the small squares in oat straw but whoop whoop, I love the big rounds...gonna get me more for sure next round when we need to restock bedding.


All sorts of methods to store hay and straw products too. What I thought different some years back was to see machines made to make HAY STACKS...have seen these now quite often. Not meant to be moved that far and I guess the bonus of not needing any baling twine, eh.

I am expecting that once a draft horse matures out, they probably don't take alot to maintain. Unless working hard of course or keeping warm in cold weather...that would be givens. Turkeys, geese, the swans, all big birds but once big and adultish, I am surprised how little feed they use. Course hens in laying mode will consume more but I always grin when someone might mention feed ramping up but they forget to factor in...eggs take inputs to be good outputs, eh!

I was feeding five or so Nigerian Dwarf goats (kewl you have those too) and four useless llamas, more than a dozen Jacob sheep...was about one 70 pound bale of good alfalfa. I found the ruminants would eat more than required to keep them maintained, mostly to fill their bellies and feel full. I would deck out a small square of oat straw and laugh because them silly creatures would be inside eating the bedding in their barns over their hay. But heavens, if I tried to feed just oat straw (maybe a green feed even), I am sure I would be getting the mad baa's and maa's over the abuse I was giving them. Whatever! Nobody wants to appear too happy, eh.

I have heard favourable reviews on rice hulls too. And yes, there are issues with turkey toms getting sore feet from flying down off roosts. We removed the roosts on some of our pens because a few toms got sore feet. They would remove the bedding about and land on in areas inside the turkey barn where it was bare painted tongue and groove plywood. If you find any birds hobbling, think about the roost and how they are landing from it.

Some use peat moss and I wonder about the acidic properties and the dust in the air but never gone too far into any of this. Oat straw works and I stopped there. Barley is too slippery and wheat smashes up too quickly.

Bare ground is carting time​

Your walker would be handling doing double duty. I work off a coupla carts in summer and two calf sleds in winter. We have the snow coverage to make sleds viable. I keep two of each because Murphy's Law says when I need to haul something, the hauler be located at the opposite end of where I am starting out. I might be older, but I am a bit smarter these daze--getting to know my faults, not correcting them either, just planning for my own demise.

Always incentive not to do the chores...throw toy, eh?



Sleds are good for water buckets, feed, straw transport, moving bodies when yer friends aren't here to help...etc...

This is a turkey convoy...nope, not a turkey trot but a relocate to winter quarters...wagons away!

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Nov 8 2014​

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You already know I'd be suggesting you get braiding up some harnesses for that wheeled up chair of yers...

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And hitch up that to a team of goats, the draft pony...make them tote that load, pull that weight...I'm so mean, eh...

Jacob rams pulling our covered wagon for a parade
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I don't see an issue with your plans on a building size. Not sure how many you will contain and with each individual bird, it depends so much on personal tolerances. How are Sumatra's for being personable with each other and other species? I mean I once had a Booted Bantam that could not be housed with even the turkeys because he was just simply too FOUL (not fowl) tempered to tolerate any other feathered kinds. I never bred from him and never carried on the bad attitude. So many variables...too hot the birds want space between them and others...too cold they will cuddle in desperation...feeding space at the trough, not enough and wars start...water access and on it goes. Even a corner might become THE wanted spot and a fight breaks out. I would be foolish to say 24 x 24 is adequate or not.

If you can house the turks by themselves, of course that would be great for the pair to be private when wanted and public out and about otherwise...if you decide later to move them to the main house, then you can always use this spare area (ha...ha...ha...spare area!) as quarantine facilities. I always have spare pens and such but I also know sooner or later, the space becomes a grow out place and well as stuff gets older, always nice to have a retirement pen where the old stuff just gets to live at a slower less stressful pace. Room to house will cycle up and down. There are always projects that are ruled out by lack of a place to hold the cherished event...so to speak!

I think my bottle neck to the poultry adventures here is not space (got 30 outbuildings which are further quardened up), but time and energies to enjoy what I am doing. I am not running a business so do not have to justify the costs but I do want to be more than a head bottle washer and feed pan filler. I want to be enjoying what I do...so too much and where's the fun in that endeavour...may as well get a REAL job and make money instead, eh.


Space requirements...looking at Glenn Drown's Storey's Guide to Poultry...he suggests adult turkey breeders get 6 to 8 square feet per bird...and a yard of 20 sq. feet per bird. That's alot of room but more is always better and safer, eh.

Guineas he lists adults in a yard of 5-10 sq. feet and layer chickens the same space plus floor space of 2 to 2.5 square feet.

I have never had Guineas or Sumatras...so no idea what might be required for those in particular. I have heard the male Guineas may be savage to other birds BUT have heard the same about Muscovy drakes and heard they can be nice. So who really truly knows! Try it and find out.

Build as big as you can afford (to build, to keep, to fill, how much space you have you can put a building on, go as big as your resources allow) as we always rarely hear too many complaints the area was too large, more that it was too small.

I think more than just the size of the building...it is the separation of the said space that can make all the world of difference too. When asked how many separate areas does one require for birds. I usually reply four; in a perfect world that is!

One for the main flock, one for setty hens with future babes, one pen/enclosure for extra males (ordering up three pairs is a decent rule, one male with three females, switch out the males, and always two males to keep each other company awaiting their turn with the girls--keeps up on healthy diversity in a flock of birds...pending you want to make more that is). The last pen needs to be away from the main pens...the concept being a quarantine area or a hospital place. Then some may even consider a pen off by itself as a bigger one, for a grow out pen. Sometimes nice to have one building in two segregated areas because then the newbies can get use to the oldsters...seeing and being in close proximity to each other. Sometimes adding new ones to the main flock is just a matter of opening the door and it is like they all get along without a pecking order fight happening (usually the worst wars between critters is when both are on the same level of dominance...more reasons to keep fighting as one might have an off day and be top dog so to speak).


I make the breeder turks sorta pets. They get to retire to a life of O'Reilly and I can fall head over heels in duh love with them. The toms will pass before the hens, probably that constant day time strutting just wears them down quicker. The hens take good care of themselves and spend alot of time preening, dust bathing, hunting bugs and sunning. Besides egg laying and horking down the rations to make eggs, they seem to live longer for that.

The young ones, well some are to be dinners, so I am careful with the heart strings on those ones. They get to be happy for 16 months and well, too many makes it miserable, so then they become happy meat. Never know what day that will be and that's a very good thing for them. I cannot have more if I am full and to keep the lines going, you make more and keep back some.

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This is the configuration of the mix I have right now out for the -20C and -30C (-4F/-22F) weather we are getting at night. Just a dusting of cracked yellow corn, I do that after breakfast is served up.

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Different type of feeder, this one has a scoop full of corn dusted over the top. I have a heat lamp on for the new grow outs but these turks were just put out now to grow outside. No other turks require heat lamps living where they do here.

Hope this chatter today has helped.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[perchie.girl]

here is a foot print of what I am planning. I have all the materials for it with the exception of some roofing.



I designed it for wheel chair access. The guinea Area is Ell shaped I am dreaming about getting them to lay eggs in a nest... but what the heck. The structure is based on six foot tall by six foot wide dog kennel frames. These started out as chainlink. Not predator proof. So all exterior walls will have aviary wire I have enough to cover the whole thing but it wont be necessary.

Aviary wire is 12.5 gauge and the grid spacing is 1/2 x 3 inches. so anything that gets through will be edible.

the Guinea area is 24 x 6 plus 6 x 6 for the ell part. or 180 square feet. Then the Chicken partitions are each 12 x 6 or 72 square feet. each will have access to a run area which will be 50 x 24 feet. The Guineas will have out side access to free range when i am there. So will the sumatras. Sumatras are considered a large bantam if you look them up on some of the sites.

I dont plan on having more than about 60 birds total.... thats all I can afford to feed.

and one of those pens designated for chickens will be reinforced and built up for goats. They will have the rest of my back yard which is about an acre.

right now I have no livestock with the exception of the horse.

deb

 

[CanuckBock]

Heel low:

So the next aspect I would like to talk about is proper timing for poults, general heritage turkey as in size and processing outcomes.

Dilute Rusty Bronze tom​

Looking at Heritage turkeys, it is never any wonder why many of the men folk fall head over heels in love with these big, regal strutting birds.

Dominant Jersey Buff hen strutting...right along with a Rusty Black tom strutting​

The heritage turkeys are ever so impressive and nothing shouts purdy like a tom or hen strutting their stuff, feathers all poofed and gorgeous.

Two cobs​

Compared to say our Australian Black Swans, heritage turkeys require about the same size facilities as these birds do.

Two pens​

Another big contender for space are having geese...turkeys, swans, geese, all BIG birds, eh!

Our Buff and Buff Pied American Geese are nice sized birds too
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Heritage turkey hens weigh from 15 pounds to 18 pounds. Heritage turkey toms weigh from 25 to 33 pounds.

Antiquity heritage Sweetgrass Tom Black Bart



Two Sweetgrass hens and one Dilute Rusty Black hen​

Biggest heritage turkey breed for us here is the Lilac males...


This male was chosen for our Christmas dinner in 2011​

He processed to a 25 pound carcass at 16 months of age and he was DELICIOUS!

For processing purposes, the toms will reach decent weight at around age nine to ten months of age but we did a taste test and found the 16 month old toms, no matter what breed or adult weight, tasted the very best. Best turkey flavour.

So we found if we started collecting and setting our turks' eggs beginning around when 14 hours of natural daylight occurs (also when one should be collecting for hatching chicken chicks too...male chickens and turkeys seem to begin to reach the start of their best fertility at 14 hours of natural daylight), it all times out perfectly for the poults to be hatched out when the season is at the best for day olds. In some cases, the day olds can even go outside if the day is pleasant.

Nature presents you with some pretty perfect conditions and going with the flow of that here, especially seeing as our winters can max out at -53C/-63F, getting your timing down to jive with Nature makes the best sense. Not sure when that is at your place, look to when the wild birds start having young...that usually is a GREAT clue at when might be the best optimal time to be having babes of the poultry bird kinds. Lots of good nutritious foods easily attainable and every thing just seems to thrive around this optimum timing. Why fight Nature when doing what the wild birds do seems to jive so well and result in such perfect conditions for healthy, happy poultry. So too may your holidays for turkey seem to jive...a 16 month old turkey tom for Christmas or October's Thanksgiving dinner comes in around hatching time of June or so--give or take a few months around the age of 16 months. Easter turk dinner is later, but my turkeys provide us with viable hatching eggs right thru from April 15th to end of August...all within the fourteen hour daylight time frame. And keep in mind that the fat layer a heritage turkey builds up for winter is used up to a certain point, so it is nice to feed them well in the spring, and harvest then for Easter with their fat layer replenished...

July 20, 2014 turks hatching​

So today I found our very first turkey egg of 2015...will I rush around firing up Buster the Bator to get the jump on hatching...likely not. I am pretty casual about hatching out poults. Young heritage turkeys are more heat sensitive/tender like and require higher brooding temperatures than say our chicken chicks do or even the ducklings or goslings. You can have way more issues with having it not warm enough for your turkey poults to prosper and besides, if you have decent happy heritage turkey stocks...eggs begin to show up anywhere from February (pending what the weather is like) right on thru to October. The hens lay some eggs (clutch) and go setty, then if not on a clutch, some will moult and grow in a nice new suit of feathers, or some will go right back into production, produce another sorta clutch of eggs and then moult...really depends on her.

I find that the more sensible hens produce the best poults for your development of a decent heritage turkey strain later in the year around middle of April and onwards. Just as with chickens, never set under a two year old female's eggs, waste of resources and efforts hatching pullet/jenny eggs (same can be said of using a cockerel or jake...not worthy or proven itself until it lives to its second year of life)...you simply don't get the best birds you should to go forward on. Hens and toms, even by just surviving to two years of age, PROVE things like disease resistance, longevity and sensibility to make it to that age...a female or male not smart enough to make it to hendom or tomdom...why in tarnation would you EVER bother to make more of those kinds...just super silly. By the second year of life, you know what characteristics the adult turkey expresses, you know what kind of temperament they have and if you like them and want more of the same, production of eggs is known, you will soon find out if fertility in the tom is sufficient for him to sire poults...disease resistance is proven by living and vigour is able to be judged because you have history with those birds. You know how long it takes for the to moult and get back into being feathered up (I have had some hens look like porcupines, they shed and grow back feathers SO quickly, they do not even have enough time to beak off the casings...their feather rate of growth is so quick).

These Jersey Buff hens are moulting and growing in their new plumage...for winter tolerance.​

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There is a surprising amount of great insulative down in a turkey's plumage, making them one of the most admirable of winter poultry survivors. Not just practical but purdy too!

Red Bronze feathers​

Sweetgrass tom feathers


Rusty Black plumage
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Nothing screams best of the best like young birds being able to go outdoors and enjoy what natural conditions have to offer. Keep in mind though if you have issues with Blackhead outbreaks in your location, that earthworm consumption by turkeys may infect them with Blackhead Disease since earth worms and some beetles are hosts of how this disorder is transferred to new victims...sigh!

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A great reason to inspect the organs of any heritage turkeys you process as blackhead is evident in the liver of turks. See the proper coloured liver, that's what you wanna be seeing...no Blackhead disease in that one.

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See the layer of fat too...now that screams healthy and able to get on through our winters...insulation, indeed! All healthy looking organs...yup, check mark on how you are keeping the turkey flocks healthy and happy. Happy meats taste great!

Some Lilac poults out and about in July on the green grass



Day old turkey poults on Sept 14, 2014​

So yeh, I am looking forward to heritage turkey poults...when conditions are primed to what Nature rewards.

Day old poults, July 2014​

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada