Turkey Genetics Feedback

Discussion in 'Turkeys' started by Lagerdogger, Jul 16, 2011.

  1. Lagerdogger

    Lagerdogger Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jun 30, 2010
    Aitkin, MN
    As promised, this is the thread to respond to the turkey color genetics lessons. Let me know if you like them, don't like them, find mistakes, or want to express something else. Maybe a good place to post pictures of turkeys that show traits described in the lessons. Whatever you want to do.

    This thread was created so that there will not be lots of comments between the lessons so that they are easier to find if someone wants to go back to one later.

    Thanks for participating.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
  2. Arielle

    Arielle Chicken Obsessed

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    Massachusetts, USA
    Well done!! Felt like I was getting a review of Genetics 101. Still have the book too! LOL
     
  3. mochicken

    mochicken Chillin' With My Peeps

    Apr 27, 2011
    NW Missouri
    Great job
     
  4. MissTurkey4

    MissTurkey4 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Mar 29, 2011
    Why do you use b for bronze instead of b+.
     
  5. Lagerdogger

    Lagerdogger Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:My interpretation of the + in b+ is that it is an acknowledgement that there are may other color genes present, but that none of them are turned on. In other words, a b+b+ bird has two "not white" genes, two "not Narragansett", two "Not Chocolate", two "not red", etc. When some other gene is different than that, the bs and the other gene are written, such as Bourbon Reds being written as bbrr, rather than b+b+rr. I noticed that I did write some bronze birds as simply bb. That would be laziness on my part.
     
  6. MissTurkey4

    MissTurkey4 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    First I think your doing a great job. I just think there needs some clairfication with the sex link genes.

    But the most interesting thing about Narragansett genes is that it takes two genes in a tom for the Narragansett trait to be expressed, but only one gene in hens. So if you cross a standard bronze with a Narragansett, the bronze donates bNg, and the Narrgansett donates bng. The result is that all the poults are bbNgng, but the toms look like bronzes and the hens look like Narragansetts. You can accurately sex this cross at about three weeks when the colors start to show.

    Some people have called this sex-linked while some have argued that it isn’t really. I don’t know enough about sex-linked genes in chickens to know if it is the same mechanism or not. I have seen a couple of explanations of sex-linked genes in chickens but they seemed to be much more complex than the Narragansett case.

    The two sex linked genes in turkeys are Naraganzett (ng) and Brown (e). It is important to point out that you need to know the sex of the birds that you are crossing. It is exactly like a sex linked chicken. It is only sexlink when it is a cross. On a Red Sex Link chicken they cross a Rhode Island Red rooster with a Delaware hen to produce a Red Sex link. The chicks can be sexed at hatch. Red Sex links do not breed true. It is just a cross. It will not work if you breed a Delaware rooster to a RIR hen.


    If your trying to sex turkeys by color you have to use a Naraganzett tom, Chocolate tom or Auburn Tom. It does not work if you use a hen of the same color.

    It is also important to know that half of the male off spring will have a single ng gene but it will not show. Half of his female offspring will get the ng or ee and it will show and the other half will.


    Anyone that argues that turkeys do not have sexlinked genes is a idiot.​
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  7. MissTurkey4

    MissTurkey4 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    bbNgNgRR 6.25% Standard bronze
    bbNgNgRr 12.5% Red Bronze
    bbNgNgrr 6.25% Bourbon Red
    bbNgngRR 12.5% Bronze toms, Narragansett hens
    bbNgngRr 25% Red bronze toms, golden Narragansett hens
    bbNgngrr 12.5% Bourbon red toms, buff hens
    bbngngRR 6.25% Narragnasett
    bbngngRr 12.5% Golden Narragansett
    bbngngrr 6.25% Buffs

    Hens only carry one sex linked gene. A example is a golden naragansett tom is b+b+ngngRr where a hen is b+b+ngRr.

    Your example would work if you bred two toms together and all of the offspring where male.​
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  8. Lagerdogger

    Lagerdogger Chillin' With My Peeps

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    You're right. I picked a bad example. The sex-linked part complicates things immensely. I will reaarange some things so it makes more sense.
     
  9. MissTurkey4

    MissTurkey4 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    This is my calculation for Bourbon Red crossed on Naragansett based on the sex of the turkeys in the cross. I edited with the correction.Bourbon Red Tom (b+b+NgNgrr) X Narragansett Hen (b+b+ng_RR).

    Bourbon Red Tom (b+b+NgNgrr) X Narragansett Hen (b+b+ng-RR).

    50% Red Bronze Toms split Narragansett. (b+b+NgngRr)

    50% Red Bronze Hens (b+b+Ng-Rr)

    Naragansett Tom (b+b+ngngRR) crossed on a Bourbron Red Hen (b+b+Ng-rr).

    50% Red Bronze Split Naragansett Toms (b+b+NgngRr)
    50% Golden Naragansett Hen (b+b+ng-Rr)
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
  10. MissTurkey4

    MissTurkey4 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The cg gene is also called the palm gene. Royal palms are black-wing based with two palm genes and two Narragansett genes, b1b1cgcgngng. The royal palm is the basic uncolored palm. All other palms are based on the b1b1cgcgngng, and just add other genes for color. For example, Calicos add one red gene b1b1cgcgngngRr. Red palms have two red genes, b1b1cgcgngngrr. Similarly blue palms add blue genes and chocolate palms add brown genes.

    You should also note that the Palm hens will not have two narragansett genes. This is important for all calculation being right. Also to make a chocolate palm you need two genes for a Tom. One from each parent. For a hen you only need one brown gene. It can only come from a Tom.

    Sexlinked genes in turkeys is the complete oposit than sexlinked genes in humans. In humans the females have two genes XX and the males are XY. In birds the male is the homozygous sex, having two Z chromosomes (ZZ), and the female (hen) is heterozygous, having one Z and one W chromosome (ZW).​
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011

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