Tylan not working - can anyone advise? Pic!

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by kcaywood, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. kcaywood

    kcaywood Chillin' With My Peeps

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    So I did a very stupid thing a week ago, and added a new pullet to my little flock. Of course, she brought something extra - a respiratory disease. All the chickens are about three months old. I put them all on Duramycin in the water. The new pullet kept sneezing, and my favorite hen started standing still, puffed up, with runny poo, and barely eating. I started them on Tylan injections, giving the new pullet an extra injection per day. Today is day three, my favorite hen is even more listless, and the other three are starting to act that way too. The new pullet has been active with a great appetite throughout and her sneezing is nearly gone. She's done fine while the rest are going downhill. I have dusted for lice and mites, and see no sign of them. Today I put the worming agent in their water. Should I try Corid now? I don't want to lose my flock.

    1) What type of bird , age and weight. Three month old Speckled Sussex hen, Black Austrolorp hen, White Leghorn hen, Buff Orpington hen, EE roo.
    2) What is the behavior, exactly. The Sussex was sneezing and hoarse, but is much better after starting Tylan. The rest are puffy, standing still, runny poo, listless
    3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms? The Sussex, sneezing for a week. The Australorp - two days. The others - one day.
    4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms? See number 2 above.
    5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma. No.
    6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation. Adding the Sussex to the flock. I'm an idiot.
    7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all. The Sussex eats and drinks fine. The Australorp very little, though I've dipped her beak in water and yogurt. The others not as much as usual.
    8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc. Runny.
    9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far? Dusted for mites and lice six days ago. Four days of Duramycin (no apparent effect), three days of Tylan injections (helped only the Sussex), two days of vitamins, and now Wazine in their water today.
    10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet? I cannot afford a vet. I must treat them myself.
    11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help. Posted below.
    12) Describe the housing/bedding in use. Wood and wire chicken tractor, dirt and grass floor.

    Thank you for anything you can advise ...

    Shown are my favorite Austrolorp hen and my EE roo. Our Typhoid Mary, a Speckled Sussex, is in the background.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Steve_of_sandspoultry

    Steve_of_sandspoultry Overrun With Chickens

    It's not worms they can't get them that quick. Giving them every med in the book might just as well kill them all.Read the directions on the tylan it says don't mix with other meds. Isolate all the sick birds right now or is that all you have? The hunched body is a sign of cocci but if there is no red in the poo it probably isnt.

    Steve
     
  3. ND

    ND Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Here's the thing with ANY antibiotics to treat a respiratory illness/infection... it'll only treat the secondary infections/bacterial infection IF they have them... the actual illness will STILL have to run it's course. A lot of these illnesses 'run their course' in about 10-14 days IF there are no secondary infections going on to keep them down. The "Typhoid Mary" probably had a secondary bacterial infection (common) that responded to the antibiotics quickly, but had already been thru the acute phase of the CRD... the others are JUST NOW entering the acute illness phase, and while some of these CRD type illnesses are a "special" form of bacteria, they ACT like a virus... and some of them just ARE viruses-- the virus must run it's course just like any other virus... and 7-14 days (absent any secondary illnesses they get because of it) is pretty standard.

    I'd stop throwing all kinds of different meds at them... stop with the dewormers, etc. It's too stressful on them right now. Keep them on the Tylan if you desire, so that you can head off any secondary infections OR wait until one actually shows more symptoms of a secondary infection that an antibiotic will help.

    Realize your birds, even once recovered and completely normal acting... will be carriers now. They will shed this virus/bacteria during times of stress, etc. They can pass it on thru their eggs (safe to eat) to the chicks, they will infect new, healthy birds if you bring them in. They will infect other flocks if you sell any. No live bird should leave your property so you don't continue to spread it to possible clean birds.
     
  4. purpletree23

    purpletree23 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    WHOOOOOA! You are over medicating. Sounds like they have a respiratory infection. Get Tylan powder. Mix 1 tablespoon to a gallon of water. Make sure this is the only water they have available to them.

    NOTE: Tylan mixes funny. Put some water in an old jar with a lid and then add the Tylan to the water. Put the cap on and shake vigorously until dissolved. Then add this to the gallon of water and mix well. Use for 5 days (each day make a new batch) and everyone should be well again.

    For added nutritional support offer them scrambled eggs, plain yogurt, shelled sunflower seeds and any vegetables ((tomatoes, super large zucchini etc cut zucchini into rings) you or a neighbor might have left over in the garden. Pumpkin is great to give chickens. Slice a few into quarters with a shovel and let them at it.
     
  5. kcaywood

    kcaywood Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Many thanks, everyone, for your input. Steve, I have nine birds altogether. Three are much younger and still live in the house. I was planning for them to join the flock. [​IMG] Just to clarify, I stopped the Duramycin the day before I started the Tylan. So I'm not doing everything at once, though of course the chemicals probably overlap in the birds' systems ... I started Oxytet in the water this evening (before reading the responses) so I'll see how they are in the morning.
    ND, Thanks for the insight on the CRD illness running its course ... that explains a lot. So you are saying that the illness must run its course because it's a virus and therefore unaffected by antibiotics, if I'm understanding correctly.
    Purpletree, I gave them some yogurt today but I've never tried the other things. I will, especially the pumpkin.
     
  6. ND

    ND Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Yup, whatever it is that they have will have to do it's thing until the birds immune system kicks in and gets a handle on it. While chickens don't get colds like people do, it's like what happens when you get a cold. It's a virus, it's going to last *so long*, your body will soon get a handle on it and you'll recover and go about your merry way. UNLESS, you develop a secondary infection brought on by the cold... like a sinus infection or other upper respiratory bacterial infection...ear infection, etc--- THEN you'd need antibiotics to clear those (if they got bad enough)-- but while it happened because of the cold or at the same time as the cold, it's totally different than the actual cold virus. IF you just had the cold virus doing it's thing... it wouldn't matter if you took antibiotics starting on day one of the cold-- they won't make any difference in how long the cold lasts, viruses aren't sensitive to antibiotics.


    Some of these CRD illnesses take 6-21 days from the time of exposure to the bird actually getting sick. (incubation) Some of them are much quicker-- like 3 days. It's possible for the ones that move slower (like MG) to move SLOWLY through a flock because of that... one or two birds show symptoms, start to act better... just in time for another to start the process, etc. They won't ALL necessarily come down with it at the same exact time. In fact, in a larger flock, it can be spread over MONTHS.

    Once your birds are better, they will remain carriers and shed the virus (or in the case of MG, the bacteria that acts like a virus), infecting new birds. They may never show symptoms again... OR they may 'relapse' during times of stress. (heat, cold, molting, change in flock dynamics, etc) You may have birds that are more prone to the 'relapsing' than others.

    Mortality for some of the CRD illnesses is pretty low... for some of them, it's higher. The younger the bird, *usually*, the higher the mortality rate.
    If you have young babies in the house that are not infected right now, you'll want to practice GOOD bio-security! Be careful about 'tracking' it in to the babies... don't tend to your outside birds, then tend to the babies without changing clothing, shoes, washing very well, etc. I'd suggest tending to any healthy (not exposed!) birds first... then tending to the infected flock... then showering/changing clothing before handling the young birds again. At the VERY least, you want to not expose the babies until they're older and are more apt to be able to handle it better. If you do integrate them to your flock, expect them to get sick, too. There ARE some vaccines for many of the CRD illnesses.... they're kinda pricey if you just have a small flock (the bottle treats like 1000 birds!), but that might be an option. I'm NOT SURE, though, the vaccine may only limit symptoms, reduce mortality, etc...but NOT prevent them from getting it and becoming carriers. Just makes it less severe.
     
  7. kcaywood

    kcaywood Chillin' With My Peeps

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    ND, your feedback is wonderful. Thank you so much! This illness does seem slow-moving and also fits the other aspects you described - sounds like MG. I will be sure to practice good biosecurity regarding the babies.

    Whether it be the passage of time, the Oxytet, or the Quik Chik electrolytes, my flock looks a bit better this morning. My White Leghorn eagerly jumped up onto the threshold when I opened the door, just like her perky old self. My sweet Australorp, who I thought was a goner for sure, is eating and pecking around with more energy. Her tail is at least at half mast, not as droopy as yesterday. I'm very encouraged.
     
  8. kcaywood

    kcaywood Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I am no longer in such fear of losing my flock. They are perking up quite well on the Oxytet and Quik Chik. Their tails are upright again. The Sussex, who started it all, is still sneezing some, however; her chest gurgles when she eats. I am thinking of taking her back to where I got her, not to get my money back - just to be rid of her. On the other hand, she already got my flock sick ... does she pose any further threat? Should I try to get a return on my investment of time, money, and stress, and hope that someday I have a glossy, healthy Sussex hen? [​IMG]
     
  9. Smoky73

    Smoky73 Lyon Master

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    My recommendations for respiratory is Tylan powder in the water, 4tsp per gallon for 3 days and then 2 tsp per gallon for 6 days. The problem with water soluble is that if the birds are really sick, they might not be drinking enough water to help.

    For a bird who is REALLY sick, you can use Tylan injectable or any other injectable med that you can get at the feed store for livestock. Example, I get LA-200 here for my goats. You can get it in strengths of LA-50 or LA- 200. I give 1cc per large fowl or 1/2cc for bantam. injected into a muscle each day for 6 days (rotate injections site.)

    I have a few silkies that were darn near dead a few years ago when I had state vets come out to draw blood on them they could not get any blood they were so close to death. I tried everything, and figured if I did nothng more, they would die for sure. So I gave those silkies 2cc of LA-200 a day and they both recovered.
    If you ever get to where you REALLY think they will die no matter, I would give super dose of meds as a last resort.

    This is just MY experience, and I am not a vet.
     
  10. ND

    ND Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Whether or not you try to return her, that's up to you. At this point, she's already spread what she's going to spread...damage is done.

    If i were you, and I REALLY wanted to get rid of her anyway, I'd just cull her. Save someone else from potentially taking her home and infecting their flock and going thru what you've been through.

    It's very possible, though, that she'll get 'healthy' (as healthy as any carrier is), and may never have any other issues after you get her feeling better. Technically, she'll be no worse off than the rest of your flock. They're all individuals on whether or not they'll show symptoms again... or be seemingly healthy (just contagious) the rest of their lives.
     

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