Unusual color?

Discussion in 'Ducks' started by Senna95, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. Senna95

    Senna95 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Okay, these are some photos of one of my drakes that should have been grey. He looked just like the others when he was young (ie. regular mallard patten duckling), but after a few weeks he slowly started turning darker and darker.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    We call him "Metal Duck". His coloring is SO SHINY..... the grey on his belly looks like it's polished pewter. You can actually see your reflection in it at times! These pics don't do him justice!

    His pattern is just like "wild type", only everthing is a few shades darker. And the feathers on his upper back are black edged with brown.

    I don't think that this is what Holderread referred to as "sooty", do you?

    Any ideas?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2011
  2. yankeedoodle300

    yankeedoodle300 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jul 22, 2011
    Chicken Heaven
    Its Probably Normal. You Should Name Him " Iron Man "
     
  3. Miss Lydia

    Miss Lydia Running over with Blessings Premium Member

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    Very pretty!
     
  4. rollyard

    rollyard Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hi Senna

    He is interesting isn't he & from what you have said, was fairly typical of wild-type in duckling down. I really don't have any idea but I guess the best I can think of is that he doesn't look like a regular grey & does look to be extra melanised? Look @ his webs for starters (hope that isn't dirt), then body, particularly main body ventral area; don't know what colour you would call it but it isn't grey, sort of like a mottled velvety fawn? What colour is his speculum?

    Genetically, what could he be? Start with the phase genes..... he isn't harlequin or light phase I don't think, so go with dark phase? For Mallard series he does look predominantly wild-type I guess, but something about him? It would be worth looking under his wings I think & interesting to know. What about modifyers? What colour is his mask because it sort of looks a little brown-ish in top picture? (probably lighting/reflection?) The bill isn't the normal green-ish colour neither is it, looks dark without xanthophyll pigment deposition?

    I had a quick look @ the Ducky Bible (Storey's Guide) last night & a closer read about Sooty. Holderread says (@ a glance) that Drakes in nuptial plumage with Sooty "are several shades darker, have duller iridescent portions, and often have a brownish hue to their plumage", &, "It also darkens leg & foot color" (some varieties/breeds with brown dilution @ least) (Holderread, Stories Guide to Raising Ducks, 2011, pp. 130-131).

    The only other factors that would "push" melanins into the webs like that I am aware of are E & m^d? So maybe a dark phase wild-type Mallard with additional Sooty (or something similar?), & maybe not?

    One other thing; Sooty is described as being dominant to wild-type, so how does it express in one dose as compared to two? If it is Sooty in your bird, is it hetero or homo form? Did you produce any other birds whose colour somewhere in between normal grey & pictured bird.

    Well, I dunno, but maybe food for thought. I wish you luck with him!
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  5. Senna95

    Senna95 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hi Rollyard. I hoped and figured you'd reply to this. Thought about sending this in a PM, but maybe others would be interested. Or better yet, say something like "hey! I have one just like that!"

    Here's anther picture (I didn't post this one first because it's such a bad photo of him, but shows the coloring well).

    [​IMG]

    His underwings are white, and his wing speculum is normal blue/green. (He has slight angel wing, so it doesn't show well in the photo) He's still very young, but his head is almost solid green already, and getting greener all the time. You can sort of see how his iridescence goes down his back, and also on the black of his tial. And his bill is dark, but starting to turn green at the tip.

    From previous discussions we already figure that this line of ducks probably carries dusky. Sooty I know nothing about...... While his iridenscense is very bright, he is deffinately a few shades darker, and he does have more brownish tones, as well as darker feet (no, it's not dirt!)

    This spring I think I will match him up with one of my regular grey females and see what happens.

    Thanks for your input!
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
  6. rollyard

    rollyard Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Doesn't sound/look like he has brown dilution then. It may not be Sooty but something else, & something else could alter the way other known genes express to some degree? I have found generally that any dark phase or hetero dark/light phase M+/m^d birds bred here so far are largely white underwing, except for those small feathers that lie over the bone similar to following:

    Hetero M+/m^d, Li+/li, Bl/bl+ Duck
    [​IMG]

    As opposed to pure dusky:
    m^d/m^d, Li+/?
    [​IMG]

    As opposed to pure wild-type mallard:
    M+/M+, li/li
    [​IMG]

    If your drake is hetero M+/m^d & either Li+/Li+, or Li+/li then I would expect to see some colour along the bone @ least. I didn't get pics of the M+/m^d, li/li birds I don't think (because I thought I would remember [​IMG]) & not 100% sure but think they were all white, however would doubt your drake li/li.

    It would be interesting to see what he produces [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
  7. Senna95

    Senna95 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Now THAT is very interesting! I'll have to go and check it out at first light tomorrow. (Probably be up all night wondering though). I'll keep you posted tomorrow.

    Till then!
     
  8. Senna95

    Senna95 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Okay, more photos:

    His unusual flecked belly.....
    [​IMG]

    Green starting to show in his bill (doesn't he have a sweet face!):
    [​IMG]

    Wing Speculum:
    [​IMG]

    And underwing:
    [​IMG]

    As you can see, he does have some (but very little) darker feathering over his bony area.... so maybe M+/m^d ???
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
  9. rollyard

    rollyard Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hi Senna

    Maybe M+/m^d but I don't know? I found that the amount of colour underwing did vary a little in my M+/m^d birds produced; one duck I remember only had a very small amount but I think it was moreso than on your bird? Definately no brown dilution, @ least no pure (d/d). He didn't look ? to have any white band under stern from what I can see which is something I find in my dusky birds (pigments extended throughout & likely result of more than just M^d). Other traits worth note are your drakes bib; he does have a large reasonably even claret area which is something I would not expect to find in a hetero M+/m^d drake based on the few I have bred, & also his neck ring. I have added more pics below of a drake I bred late last season & genetically colour-wise M+/m^d, Li+/? (descended from li/li Saxony), Bl/bl+, D+/d; note both minimal broken neck ring & small irregular claret pigmented area. For me he ( my bird in following pics) has a strong Dusky flaviour.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    If I were wanting to test for Dusky I would be looking for a pure dusky duck, preferably without any or too many other modifyers (pied gene etc) that may confuse/complicate outcome, eg a Dark Dusky if one can be found, & see if any pure m^d/m^d ducklings produced. Mating to a pure wild-type mallard wouldn't give a clear-cut outcome for your drake carrying dusky, but would still be interesting to see.

    My thoughts, Cheers [​IMG]
     
  10. FarmrGirl

    FarmrGirl MooseMistress

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    Great thread guys! While I admit that most genetics are a little over my head, I'm trying to learn about them little by little. Thanks for sharing the great pics and the really interesting discussion [​IMG]
     

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