UPDATE 8/14: Dog training - Hope for an untrained country bumpkin?

[teach1rusl]

In puppy class (yeah, I know it might be a bit different w/an older dog, but I think more similarities than differences), they taught us "Zen Puppy" lol. You mentioned you want to get her attention. Find a really great treat (small cubes of cheese, sliced up weiner, cubed chicken - has to be highly motivational). Standing there, every time she looks you in the eye (and you can coach her by making sound, whistling, or calling her name - although you said she doesn't know her name yet), give her a reward. It's to get the dog to look to you for guidance...like "I'm looking at you, what do you want me to do?" Anyhow, I hope your new dog works out; It sure sounds like you're willing to give it 100%

 

[DragonEggs]

OMG, if that dog really has Beagle AND/or Chow in it I wish you luck!

I was training my saint bernard for SAR as a puppy and he was doing excellent until my dad brought home a 2 year old beagle from off the streets. This dog knew NOTHING and made my training more difficult with my puppy who started to revert because of this new adult untrained dog.

Is there hope? YES, but be warned it is going to be DIFFICULT! You have a mix of stubborn breeds there.

Pick up a copy of the book "The Loving Dog" Its all about non violent training methods that mimic what wild wolves do to establish leadership and order.

I know a lot of people are big on spanking a dog that is bad but with the breeds you have that simply WILL NOT work! Trust me! If the dog truly has Chow in it this may even make the dog aggressive. DO NOT spank this dog! Not even a tap!

Everything with this dog must be food enforced! Ignore bad behavior, throw a party and reward with lots of food for good behavior. Its hard when you have an out of control dog. Consider crate training till she picks it up.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I never found ANY breed where 'spanking' did any good as a routine training method. In training (vs discipline or correction) I try to use the training collar. If the dog is not doing something, I try to figure out what's wrong. Is the environment too distracting for him at this stage of his training? Did I use a method he doesn't get? What can I change? Usually the dog is like a dog training book, and 100% predictable. He does what the trainer tells him to do, the trainer is the one that needs to make a change. Say the dog who does not sit straight after a recall and finish (pivot from front of me to my side). Well maybe it's my fault. Maybe I need to go back to an earlier stage, like where I walk backward to help him straighten up.

That's the cool thing about the trainer who shows you how to rbeak things down to steps.

If a dog is chow and beagle, he may indeed be a little tougher. But I wouldn't assume so. Chows and beagles both have been bred at puppy mills a lot, which means the temperament can be just about anything.

My friend had a pure chow, and every time she gave him a leash correction, he would freeze and stare at her and if she kept up, he'd do that plus growl. She laughed and thought it was cute(oh Khan baby sweetheart), the trainer having done a lot of chows had a different opinion about it. Basically, You better take that out of him or one day he is going to start biting. They put a muzzle on the dog and she corrected him every time he growled. She had let it go a long time so it took a week or so but he quit. He also got a correction every time he froze and stared.

Friend had a beagle that his reaction to every leash correction was to pee on the floor and cower. Trainer had him give a leash correction and then walk forward energetically and say good dog. pretty soon dog was wagging his tail right after a leash correction, and no peeing.

I think the best thing is to always 'start soft' and use just as much pressure as you need to get results and no more. You only escalate if it gets no response. I am not sure it's so good to repeat and repeat and repeat the same correction if it is going nowhere, it teaches a dog to ignore corrections. When you move up to the next level immediately, it teaches the dog to react to the smaller correction or something bigger is coming.

The saying is, 'just enough, and not one whit more'.

Say a dog puts his paws up on the table. I say NO and take him down with the collar(he has a training collar on all the time he is out of his crate). If he growls, he gets a muzzle so the correction for getting up on the table is not too timid and he also gets corrected for growling - a jerk on the collar or plus. If he goes right back up, take him down a little more forcefully. If he gets after me for taking him off the table, depends, but probably put him on his back until he lays still and turns his head away, 'okay, I accept you have the right to decide what I do'.

Normally you don't have to put them on their back literally - I think I did it literally about twice in 40 yrs, you just act as if you could, you make them sit or lie down, and when they look away, it's saying, 'I accept you can tell me what to do', and that's enough. Some of them will sigh too. They kind of relax, oh, so this guy is in charge (being a leader is a strain, so they relax when they do not have to be).

if they come up to you wagging and all kisses after punishment, it depends on dog, with some it means they didn't get it, with others it means they did and are saying, 'I accept you are the leader'. I tend to ignore it and don't worry about it vs the person who told me 'the dog just doesn't get it' and punished him again!!!(I think all corrections/punishments need to happen only and right when the behavior is occuring).

Some of them need some private time to figure out a correction and sort out their relationship with you. 'If I'm not the boss, who am I?' they need a little time to sort it out. I'd be careful, though, if they are really isolating themselves, the punishment may be too harsh for them.

 

[oesdog]

I have smacked my dog - I don;t agree with hurting an animal at all. However I do believe there is a time for it! I have a very large dog and I do have a responsibility towards others with that Dog. This particular Dog was locked up for most of his puppyhood and learned nothing. He was very aggressive. The day I got him home he bit my DH. He was incredibly Food Aggressive. He was also aggressive toward other dogs and he was starting to get distructive. He also bit DS on the leg once and dragged him across a busy road DS was 17yrs at the time so not a small kid at all.

Murph is now a totally different animal than he was and knows who is boss. - He was incredibly food aggressive one day and actually bared teeth and growled and was extremely scary to the point he wouldn;t let me even close to him. I had watched a programme on Huskies and the trainer litterally belted the dog that was aggressive to her- she maintained that she needed it to know she was boss! - Reluctantly I took down the blue lead doubled it over and brought it down hard on Murphs Butt ( He has very thick fur being an OES so doubt if he felt much of it through the coat!) I can tell you it hurt me far more than him. I knew I had one chance with Murph - he had bitten and was aggressive and if I didn;t do something really quick and radical he would be put down. I couldn;t give him away while he was a danger could I and I had rescued him and I was responsible - I had taken him on aggression and all! It was me or the Rainbow bridge and he was not even 2yrs old! You can;t risk someone else being hurt or someone else being cruel to him becaus ehe had hurt them. He is the only Dog I have belted. But he sure had a swift sharp shock.

Now 4 yrs on I still keep the blue lead in the Utility - I would only bring it out for really really bad behaviour - that is behaviour that could cause harm to a child like the aggression/ biting or harm to our home like distruction. I think sometimes Dogs can be very like kids, If you have a very wayword kid who has not recieved the love it needs or boundries it will be uncontrolable. I had to teach Murph where the boundries were and secure him inside of that in a loving home. Dicipline and love go hand in hand! Murph has only ever been hit twice - once for the aggression and once for stealing and shredding furnishings. Now if I touch the blue lead he puts up him paw to say sorry. He now lets me lift his food bowl mid feed without an issue, I can litterally put my hand in the food bowl and he doesn;t flinch! I don;t however feed the two dogs together ever!!!! I love him to bits and he is adorable but I would Never ever trust him around a kid because of his history. He has learned so much and we even have a Schnouzer living with us ( another rescue - and so he has adapted to learning to socialise with other dogs.) To be honest I think there is a place but it has to be last resort!

I don;t regret using the leash on his rear end - rather than losing him. As you can see by my Avitar he is the most gorgious healthy and loving Dog ! He is my third rescue Oes and the only one I ever had the aggressive issue with. A dog that size you simply cannot allow it to go on - so many kids have been maimed and killed by Dogs that have aggression issues - so no I don;t feel giulty one bit - however It has to be done as dicipline and never in anger! That would only increase the Dogs agression.

Oesdog -

 

[welsummerchicks]

That is wonderful that you turned that dog around. Good for you and good for the dog!

We had Samoyed dogs, and the old saying is the team of malamutes you won't get started because they will will be fighting each other, the team of Siberians will start alright, but will take you over a cliff all yelping excitedly, and the Samoyeds...the SAMOYEDS, they will start up but at a nice leisurely trot right when you say hike, and if you press them to run, they will say, 'Sorry but it's too hot to run'.

 

[oesdog]

Thanks for that I was a bit worried about the controversy over the to smack or not to smack issue! - Honestly I do believe Murphy would have been put to sleep if I had not managed to get him to understand who was boss. - It was hard and painful to me because I knew he had been beaten by the fellow who had him and that is why through fear aggression he bit DH and DS - I think it kind of shocked him that I gave him a welt on the butt. But I didn;t hammer him just one short shock and it was over then I made him imediately sit and put his paw up to say sorry!Then we had a cuddle! - I love him sooo much and was so glad I saved him. But I think if he was treated right at the start it wouldn;t have come to that. I think sometimes you just have to have and use the last resort! But it has to be done with wisdom and NEVER in anger. I was so glad I watched the Husky trainer !!!!!!!

Oesdog -

 

[welsummerchicks]

Na. The only possible change I'd make is to not have to go get the blue leash, because sometimes things happen faster than that.

They have to know they can't bite.

I was at a picnic when an acquaintance's dog bit a child. The dog was under the picnic table. The kid was about four, and was eating at the table. The kid dropped some food on the ground accidentally. The dog guarded the food, ate the food, then growled, then bit the child when she moved her foot.

The kid started crying.

The owner grabbed the dog and screamed, 'what did you do to my dog?' Kid starts crying harder.

The mother came over and hit the kid on the back of the head and said, 'Stop teasing the dog'.

The kid started crying even harder. The mother hit the kid on the back of the head again and said, 'Stop sulking and don't tease the dog'.

Other times I have seen people try and 'soothe' a biter or growler. There, there, Precious. Please don't bite.

The kid looked at me through her silent tears. Right then I wouldn't have given you a plug nickel for the dog, the owner or the mother.

Yes, dear, you CAN come over and live at my house.

The kid was basically living the life of a female Joe Dirt. Yes honey, we do have room at my house.

 

[babyblue]

chicks that just makes me want to cry for that little kid. honestly as a mom with tiny kids if a dog bit my child, particularly when the child did nothing wrong Id be hard pressed not to snap its neck. I know that’s not pc or anything, but that would be my gut reaction as a parent after first making sure my baby was ok.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I was right there with you, but I kept still, mostly because I figured they would all 3 come after me if I stood up for the kid, I did say, the kid did not do anything, and the dog owner gave me one of those 'i will kill you where you stand' looks. When it came to that dog she was just totally out of her mind. I think if it had bit someone's arm off and was standing there with their arm in their mouth, she'd shriek, 'serves you right for standing there looking off in the distance, that upsets my dog'.

Some people get very, very strange about their dogs. That's not the only time I've seen something like that happen.

In contrast, my little 2 1/2 year old nephew ran in and jumped on my dog while it was sleeping on the couch, and the dog rose up like a bull elk - the kid burst into tears. His mama stood in the doorway and said, 'So, what did the doggy SAY to Steven?'

And little Steven said, 'The doggy says, 'stop irritating me'' (where in the hay did he learn to say IRRITATE at 2 1/2??? probably from MOMMY).

iT is no good for the dog either. You know a dog like that is going to get shot or put down eventually. Thing to keep in mind is when this dog bit, the food was GONE. He bit the kid's foot becaue he HAD BEEN eating and the kid's foot MOVED.

When people are that messed up in how they relate to an animal or child, the only thing that can possibly help is the Police and Child Protective Services.

There are three kinds of dangerous dog - 'born dangerous', 'made dangerous' and 'born dangerous and made worse'

 

[oesdog]

I totally agree and that is why I was sooooooooo hard on Murphy - tough love was all I could give him. Though I tell you if he ever tried to savage anyone - I would be the 1st person to put a spade in his head. ( Though I do make a difference between a bite and a savage!) I wouldn;t wait to try to calm him down and get him taken to the vet - he sure wouldn;t last that long. I really do agree with you that some dogs are born bad news - part of their breeding like Pit bulls. Others as you say are made that way like Murphy from bad ownership and others you are right have the worst ! Born and made worse. Here we have a lot of what they call status Dogs which are pit bull/ staffy type dogs and are treated badly to increase their aggression. These types of Dogs have been responsible for a number of recent horrific child deaths.

Usually when folk come and ask what I think about an aggressive dog to me I advise to put it down. As unless the owners are really really tough - these dogs wont turn round and will always be a risk! Bad news for everyone. It simply is not worth that. With our Murph being such a big breed I really couldn;t afford for him to show any kind of aggressive behaviour. And I still wouldn;t trust him with a child !!!!!!!!

Oesdog -