Update:Need help from those with malposition experience!

Discussion in 'Incubating & Hatching Eggs' started by CSisley, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. CSisley

    CSisley Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I set some eggs July 12th around 4pm in my Brinsea Mini Advance so I figured they would all be due about August 1st or 2nd, this past Friday and Saturday. Based on candling shortly before lockdown I was expecting about 5 chicks. Well, late Friday night some of them pipped and by the end of Saturday I had two successful hatches and two pips leaving just one egg that hadn't shown any activity. Then another hatched Saturday night and the next hatched late Sunday Morning.
    After four successful hatches I candled the last egg again to see if the chick had broken through to the air cell. I couldn't see a beak in the air cell and I couldn't detect any movement. Thinking that perhaps it was a late in shell death I made a hole in the shell so I could see into the air cell. To my surprise, there was definitely a live chick but the beak still hadn't broken into the air cell. Not wanting to shrink wrap the chick, I loosely taped a piece of shell over the hole leaving only a very small opening and put the egg back in the incubator. Late Sunday night I checked the air cell again but the chick still hadn't broken into it. I'm very confused at this point because both times I looked in the air cell it appears as though the chick is breathing and I could hear a small chirp. How could it breath or chirp if its beak isn't in the air cell!? I checked the air cell again this morning and it appears to still be breathing but still no pips.
    The only thing I can think is that maybe the chick is backwards. One of the other chicks actually hatched backwards and the air cell was never broken into. At this point I figure if the chick doesn't hatch or pip by the end of the day I'm going to see if I can assist it but I would like your thoughts and opinions...
    UPDATE:
    So last night I removed most of the shell covering the air cell and I dipped my finger in clean water and felt around for the beak. As the membrane was moistened I could see that there were quite a number of active veins. I could not find the beak or the head! This really has me worried. It's still breathing but it seems awfully fast between 12 or 13 breaths per 10 seconds. I don't understand how this chick is breathing at all with no active air source. I know it is not backwards because I'm almost certain I could recognize hocks and a yolk sack but I can't recognize what I DO see. Also, I did not hear any peeps this time. I checked on it again this morning; still breathing fast, still no pips anywhere.
    I really think it is malpositioned somehow but with all those veins I can't see helping it without killing it! FYI:The egg is one of those eggs that's hard to tell what is the skinny end and what end is the fat end.
    What do I do people!?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  2. Alaskan

    Alaskan The Frosted Flake

    Put a drop of water on the membrane and that will make any veins stand out.

    If the membrane is full of red veins, that baby isn't yet ready, if you see none, then it is time to help.

    You are correct, if the chick is peeping, it has to have air access... Is there a tiny pip through the shell on the small end of the egg that you didn't see at first? Where is his beak?

    Find the article on assisted hatch. It will answer ALL of your questions.
     
  3. CSisley

    CSisley Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I looked all over the egg for tiny pips and couldn't find any. I wish I knew where the beak is because I don't know how it is breathing or peeping if it hasn't broken into the air cell.
    Where should I look for the article on assisted hatching?
     
  4. aafairchild

    aafairchild Out Of The Brooder

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    back out to the top of the hatching forum and the article you need is on the right hand column, called step by step guide to assisted hatching.

    Good luck
     
  5. CSisley

    CSisley Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Great! Thanks so much!
     
  6. CSisley

    CSisley Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Still need help folks!
     
  7. Alaskan

    Alaskan The Frosted Flake

    @CSisley

    https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/step-by-step-guide-to-assisted-hatching

    There is the article.

    If the veins are still visible, there is nothing you can do.

    Very frustrating.

    At this point, since the chick still doesn't look ready, AND since the chick is so late, I am very worried that there is no way to save it.

    It can look very confusing when you are looking for chick parts. It tends to look like a scramble of who knows what. A slightly pointier beak is what you need to find. The face is usually hiding, so do not bother looking for that. Look for a pointy something.


    Personally, I would recommend looking at your successfully hatched chicks....problem hatches are hard on the heart. :hugs
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  8. CSisley

    CSisley Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I read through that whole article before I did anything. I also looked at the link provided on malpositions but since I don't make a habit of cracking open healthy eggs I don't know what's "normal." I figured I wouldn't be able to find the head since it's supposed to be under the wing with the beak pointing towards the air cell but the article made it confusing talking about "feeling the eye." I looked all over for that dang beak till I felt like the chick would die from contamination! UHHHgggg it IS frustrating!

    Quote: It's funny you say that because that is exactly what I did last night after being bummed out about the remaining egg. I sat down with my four healthy biddies and looked at pole barn building videos with my Mom. Somehow getting crapped on by powder puff balls made me feel a lot better but I think I'll need an extra treatment this evening.
     
  9. Alaskan

    Alaskan The Frosted Flake

    Everything you said x2.

    Except I have cracked open a good number of eggs at this point. But, it is STILL very difficult to impossible for me to figure out what I am looking at. It always looks scrambled to me. I just keep looking until I find the beak. However, if the chick is not set up right, and you can't figure out where to even start looking.. :confused:
     
  10. CSisley

    CSisley Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The chick died last night. Yesterday evening around 7 it was still breathing but much more slowly. I had good success removing the shell without removing the shell membrane so it was like a shelless egg but it was such slow progress that it took me about 40 minutes to get through half the egg. My hope was to find the beak to allow it to breath and draw in the blood from the allantois. I had something else that needed to be done and the egg was a good bit cooler so I thought a break would do us both good but when I came back an hour later it was no longer breathing. In all honesty I'm pretty sure removing the shell didn't hurt it but I suspect the triple antibiotic ointment I used to see the veins was not a good thing. I was right though, it was like malposition #2 but different: http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/1608/investigating-hatchery-practice-examining-the-hatch-debris. The hocks were much higher, above the aircell so they were not visible and the yolk had already been absorbed so I couldn't tell I was looking at its butt. The position in which I had the egg laid would have made it much more difficult for the chick to peck through the shell because it would have been hitting the bottom of the incubator.
    If I had to do it all over again I would have gotten started removing the shell to find the beak Monday evening when I knew something was wrong and I would have used an ointment I was sure was safe. Its death hit me pretty hard and I cried for a long time but I’m doing a lot better this morning. I have one more egg out of this batch due Thursday so hopefully there won’t be any issues.
     

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